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Hi all,

I'm thinking of starting an ancient Armenian army, the classic Tigranes the Great one, but I'm struggling to find many clues as to what they looked like. 

Did any ancient Urartu culture still remain? I found some opinions saying that Armenia had been heavily influenced culturally by Archaemenid Persia. The proximity to the encroaching Scythian/Sarmatian/Parthian cultures in the north and East would presumably also have had an influence.  The Cappadocians on the western side seem to be similar trouser/tunic wearers from I what I understand.  Some sort of Iranian influenced trouser/tunic combination with Scythian, Persian or maybe Phrygian type caps perhaps?  Pontic armies are described as wearing colourful Median and Scythian coats with bright embellished armour, so maybe this would extend to the Armenians too.   

There doesn't seem to be any dedicated figure line for this period in 28mm and isn't even an Osprey, that I know of. What I could find in 15mm seemed very Persian/Parthian looking.  Is the short answer that we just don't know?  If it is, what do people think are the best proxies?

Anyone got any thoughts?

I suspect you are already on the right lines. If he (Tigrane) used troops from across the quite large area he conquered then you have the possibly of quite a diverse army but I am sure some of the other chaps on the forum will give you more definitive advice. What scale and rules are you hoping to use them with?

I fudged mine when I did.
Used xyston kapadocians for footmen, basically parthians for horsemen, and some generic hill tribe types for Black Sea iberians.

Keep us posted which choices you make

I have an Armenian army that is roughly from the period of Tigranes, but it is at 6mm so I get away with some heavy paint jobs and rough modelling (filing down bow cases) in places. There are some figure depictions in some of the WRG reference books (Armies and Enemies of Imperial Rome, Macedonian and Punic Wars, Greek and Persian Wars) and some figures in Duncan's book on the Achaemenid Persians provided inspiration too.

I used a mix of figures from various ranges of the 6mm manufacturers to come up with my motley collection. There are some photos on my website. Most infantry are unarmoured and wearing tunic and trousers and carrying round shields. Parthian style light cavalry and a mix of various heavier cavalry were used.

You might find some useful thoughts in this thread on the Iberians and Albanians of the Caucasus during this period.

Albanian and Iberian thread (http://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=5068.0)

The Armenians on 6th/5th-century Achaemenid monuments are wearing Median dress - tunic, trousers, cap - and to judge from Plutarch's Antony, this was still true a generation after Tigranes:

QuoteAt the same time he (Antony) also produced his sons, Alexander arrayed in Median garb, which included a tiara and upright head-dress, Ptolemy in boots, short cloak, and broad-brimmed hat surmounted by a diadem. For the latter was the dress of the kings who followed Alexander, the former that of Medes and Armenians.

For Roman coins showing Armenian dress and equipment, see https://www.peopleofar.com/2012/07/11/armenian-images-in-roman-coins/

Symbolic Armenia on the Hadrianeum in Naples: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Armenia_Hadrianeum_MAN_Napoli_Inv79.jpg

Just catching up on this at lunchtime.  Wow!  Thanks for all the feedback.  That's great. 

My project will be in 28mm but is early doors as I have a couple of other armies in the middle of re-basing and filling out.  Ancients as a period has had a bit of a renaissance recently at our club, which I'm quite chuffed about.  Some newish members had been playing Art De la Guerre and so now others are piling on.  I make no claims to perfection of the rules but I've enjoyed the few games I have played so far and the army sizes are not too big.  I am just glad to get some ancient lead/plastic on the table to be honest. 

I'll have a better read through the links and post up some of my ideas when I have more time.  Thanks again for all the input and please add more if anyone has any additional thoughts.

Thanks again guys for the comments.  I've had a closer look now and dug out my copies of the books suggested that for some reason I hadn't thought to look at.  These two are probably the most useful.

(https://www.peopleofar.com/wp-content/uploads/augustus27-b-c-a-d-14armenian-standing-facing-holding-spear-in-right-hand-and-resting-left-on-bow-set-on-ground-2.jpg)

(https://www.peopleofar.com/wp-content/uploads/roman-silver-denarius-of-augustus-27-b-c-e-14-c-e-commemorating-the-subjugation-of-armenia.jpg)

I also found these images on the People of Ar Web site Duncan linked to.

(https://www.peopleofar.com/wp-content/uploads/comparison-Urartu-seals-and-Pazyryk-carpet-horsemen.jpg)

Here is the link (https://www.peopleofar.com/2019/03/27/the-worlds-oldest-rug-was-made-in-armenia/)

So Persian/Median proxies are looking best.

I will probably use the various plastic kits to cut down costs and allow for a bit of kitbashing.  These Persian unarmoured spearmen (https://www.victrixlimited.com/products/persian-unarmoured-spearman?variant=33392792469603) and archers (https://www.victrixlimited.com/collections/greek-and-persian-wars/products/persian-unarmoured-archers?variant=33196956156003) will probably serve for many of the infantry.

The Gripping Beast Dark Age Warriors (https://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/GBP03_Dark_Age_Warriors--product--3276.html) or the Wargames Atlantic Goths (https://wargamesatlantic.com/collections/decline-and-fall/products/goth-warriors) are possibilities with suitable head swaps.  Maybe some of the Victrix Dark Age archers (https://www.victrixlimited.com/en-es/collections/dark-ages/products/dark-age-archers?variant=39812879810659) as well.  They are close to the Armenian javelinman in Armies and Enemies of Rome. Fig 94.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_nKdJ9XM29Q/Uap1LN8nrLI/AAAAAAAAEPU/1G9_6sCDWmM/s1600/012.JPG)
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0078/4764/1186/products/Gothswhite1_1800x1800.jpg?v=1648165014)

For the Cataphracts, these from Gripping Beast (https://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/GBP37_Parthian_Cataphracts--product--55557.html) look pretty good.

(https://images.beastsofwar.com/2022/11/Parthian-Cataphracts-Group-2-Gripping-Beast.jpg)

For the horse archers I might be able to kitbash something from the Persians or perhaps better is to use the Scythians (https://www.victrixlimited.com/products/ancient-horse-archer?variant=40162608152675) pack.

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0782/9619/products/Montage1-4_5000x.jpg?v=1671556840)

PS I found another source unit (https://1stcorps.co.uk/product/persian-horse-archers/) for the horse archers.  Metal not plastic but might be nice for variety.

(https://1stcorps.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/PER12-New-horses.jpg)

Wow! those metal horses look very good, where did you spot them? I have found some of my metal horses to have quite a static look - necessary as their legs can tend to get easily damaged (Two of my Numidian horses now have transparent poles from old flying bases holding them up underneath after they took a tumble!). I have quite a few the plastic Victrix horses but not these Scythians (they cropped up on the forum a little while ago re the pose shooting backwards), they do tend to be much more dynamic but can be a little bigger than other manufacturers. That said they should be fine for your Armenians but my British chariots should probably be being pulled by small shaggy ponies not the fine beasts that Victrix provide. :)

The metal horse archers are from 1st corps here (https://1stcorps.co.uk/product/persian-horse-archers/).

I've got some of their figures and they can be a bit smaller than other ranges.  I might get a pack to see though.

There are some size comparison pictures of the various Scythian/Parthian cavalry miniatures here (https://1stcorps.co.uk/product/persian-horse-archers/)

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjDZHI2UuDp_mXOqeEYcGfToHoDtFROSIAQ7VyYtD_hI07vw4IPkR3eqni4E4tp6eucX5kYaysCU5s8ydSDOhbf8U12KlBFG5VX4WrADF073SILpIKzIOdg6Mo5C2X9OpIn4V-82NxAbQOOEm8K5bR42RTaZIloxmmpJSji1peAAEfCjuxaFULJAtSYdg/s3538/IMG_1193edited.jpg)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjMVq6vMoQScNd5Qe63y-OYksgZY7ldO-MQVSC2mt0bLcjlXd0IVMtzRs9Vc-5dpSBEjoJO26HKYbuZ0JX2iufES0BJF17UklQCMjC5r_FyKANMuSTJpKLzrpP8zKa2ygszEm1q2P4w6ffBGCYyPSMz_h6BuegoPL9ExCj7_frdOIXJ2e3pIk9BZuZhGA/s4658/IMG_1192edited.jpg)

The Victrix Scythians and Grippping Beast Cataphracts look to go well together.  Only the Warlord Parthians look a bit puny. 

A&A are another one I forgot about.  They have some horse archers in their Parthian/Sassanid range here (http://www.aandaminiatures.co.uk/view_product/?p=217)

Don't forget that that they were a fair few allies in the Armenian army. I went back to the old WRG list (No.44 Army Lists Book 1 1981) as that tended to give more specific detail as opposed to the more generic categories in later sets.

As a result my Tigranes the lesser has a Gordyene sub-general called Zarbienus the Unfaithful.

I agree, for Tigranes you need a bit of a King-of-kings aesthetic for he had "subdued many nations."  Even if they were quite small ones and their loyalty seems unsure.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/Maps_of_the_Armenian_Empire_of_Tigranes.gif)

"Mardian mounted archers and Iberian lancers" are mentioned here (https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:2008.01.0046:chapter=31&highlight=mardian). The Mardians are a Scythian people from the southern Caspian shore, from what I read here (https://ia803408.us.archive.org/11/items/the-mardians-a-note-anabasis-studia-clas/The_Mardians_a_Note_Anabasis_Studia_Clas.pdf), but a group seems to have been settled in Armenia itself.  I thought Seleucid Mardians were foot archers but these are explicitly mounted, so I guess Scythian/Parthian cavalry models would suit, which is handy.  The Iberians, and Albanians, are extensively discussed in the thread David linked to above.  The ADLG list seems to lump them both together anyway as "Georgians or Albanians".

"Zarbienus, king of Gordyene" is one of "the princes who paid but a hollow obedience to the Armenian" here (https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:2008.01.0046:chapter=21&highlight=gordyene).  That swathe of light brown vassals on the map could cover a multitude of sins.  Arabs, Syrians, Arameans, Greeks, a wide variety of Iranians etc.

Just below the bit about the Mardians and Iberians, Plutarch talks of "Greeks whom he[Tigranes] removed in great numbers from Cilicia and from Cappadocia, and settled anew".  Maybe that's the Phalangites that appear in the lists but it's a bit of an assumption if it is. I seem to recall some evidence for Kommogene having some Phalangites too but we're into the dying days of that troop type.  I have another memory of Mithridates retraining Tigranes infantry as imitation legions.  A small number are allowed in the list.

I would suspect Arsacid Parthian and Skythian cultures - beliefs, clothing styles, armour and styles of warfare - would have had big impact on army and court of Tigranes the Great, while individual towns and cities within his empire would reflect their origins in terms of military traditions: so there were many towns and cities of 'Arab', 'Jewish' and Greek settler / colonists from the time of Alexanders Successors as well as the many neighbouring cultures and kingdoms highlighted by the map 'Trev' has posted.
Books on the Roman-Persian Wars for dominance over Armenia may help identify the numbers and sources of troops that would have been 'on call' from within his empire.
CarlL

The old WRG list allows Tigranes to have:
Pontic trained imitation Italians - Reg C LMI jls shld 10 - 100
of which up to 72 can be upgraded to Reg C HI HTW shld
And:
Ex-Seleucid or ex-Greek phalangites Reg D MI pike shld 24 - 48

My 6mm Armenian army has small groups of these (but downgraded in terms of morale) as part of Tigranes' own command of Armenian troops. Half the army is made up of allies from (H)Iberia, Albania, Adiabene, and Gordyene, with the last two being classed as reluctant.

I did a bit of reading last night, mostly wiki, and this is my summary of what I found on the vassal kingdoms.

Kommagene - Hellenised Orontid Armenian/Iranian Elite, Hellenised Aramaic people with Iranian influence
Sophene - Orontid Armenian/Iranian Elite, Armenian with lots of heavily mixed influences but notably Greek
Osrhoene - Nabatean Arab Elite, heavily Aramaic with strong Parthian and some Greek influence
Gordyene - long association with Armenia, possible Kurds, skilled in siege-craft
Adiabene - Iranianised Syriac people with Arab, Aramean, Greek and Jewish influences
Atropatene - Iranian Kingdom

That's probably hopelessly simplified, if not outright wrong, but a start.

Bear in mind that during this period, no one civilised defined themselves as Arabs.  So polities such as Nabatea and Hatra claimed rulership over Arabs, but did not regard themselves as Arab. The term Arab was pretty ill defined anyway... seems to have been loosely applied to anyone who lived in the Near East with nomadic tendencies or heritage that were not evidently Iranian in their origins.

Arabic as a culture only really starts becoming semi-respectable in the later Roman empire, paradoxically because leading Arab figures become more acculturated to Roman/Greek ways (and the Romans reluctantly recognise that they need the Arabs on their side)...

"no one civilised" .. wow...
CarlL

I quite obviously mean in the context of the time.  FWIW, I have worked alongside Arabs (and other regional nationalities) in the Near and Middle East, and have a deep respect for their culture.  The Romans and the Greeks on the other hand... and indeed the Nabataeans and Hatran elites for that matter...

It's certainly a very complicated area culturally.  I was thinking that having some idea about the main cultures of the vassals might give some clues as to what troop types would be appropriate, in the absence of other data.  It's best guess time but better than nothing.  The ADLG list allows Tigranes to have Arab and Atropatene (Parthian list) allies.  The rest would have to be covered with the existing main troop types.  For a game legal army list anyway.  For scenario games that's obviously not an issue.

The main Armenian list is mostly Cataphracts, Horse Archers, Javelinmen and Bowmen besides the specials already mentioned. Some of the horse archers could be Mardians, modeled looking more Scythian than the Armenians, if I'm right about their origin.  Some nobles could be Cataphracts, but I don't know how you'd distinguish them from Armenians for that to be worthwhile.  Javelinmen and Bowmen could be from a variety of backgrounds.  Greek colonist Peltasts are an obvious one.  I can probably find or kitbash something believable as Aramaic, or perhaps Jewish, archers.  Those pointed Assyrian style helmets seem appropriate.  I wonder if anyone looking like a classic Assyrian archer still existed by this date?  Those Roman Syrian Auxiliary Archers must have come from somewhere too but the Trajan's column look is a good while later, so that's maybe too much of a stretch.

The 3 WRG reference books I mentioned earlier would tend to suggest that clothing styles weren't influenced by the latest trends and some of the drawings provide examples on which the various "allies" could be based.

Quote from: Trev on March 14, 2023, 03:00:17 PMI did a bit of reading last night, mostly wiki, and this is my summary of what I found on the vassal kingdoms.

Kommagene - Hellenised Orontid Armenian/Iranian Elite, Hellenised Aramaic people with Iranian influence

They also seem to have had access to Seleucid military settlers (or at least phalangites)
At least they did have by the time of the Jewish revolt

Quote from: dwkay57 on March 15, 2023, 08:46:52 AMThe 3 WRG reference books I mentioned earlier would tend to suggest that clothing styles weren't influenced by the latest trends and some of the drawings provide examples on which the various "allies" could be based.

Hi David.  I have AMPW and AEIR.  I have checked through and there are some seemingly appropriate units - Arab, Jewish, Greek, maybe an odd Seleucid troop type.  I couldn't see anything particularly for the vassal kingdoms though or much Aramaic/Syrian to indicate retention of old Assyrian styles.  Was the third book you mentioned the WRG Lists?  I don't have the oldest WRG army lists but I do have the DBx ones.  Have I missed something else?

Quote from: Jim Webster on March 15, 2023, 05:15:34 PMThey also seem to have had access to Seleucid military settlers (or at least phalangites)
At least they did have by the time of the Jewish revolt

Hi Jim.  The ADLG Tigranes Options seems to be lacking a bit in heavy infantry both in numbers and possible options.  Mithridates seems to have had actual phalangites in Greece and Tigranes has 'phalanxes', as Pharnaces did later, if my memory serves.  So I'm happy to assume some remnant military settlers in the area even if they were probably dwindling fast.  Given the miserly numbers of phalangites and imitation legionaries in the ADLG list, a Commagene ally would help on that score.  An Arab/Aramean ally feels missing too but those units can mostly be covered by the Armenian troop categories looking at the other lists in the various list books.

On the subject of troop lists I remembered yesterday that Luke Ueda-Sarson has a battle scenario for Tigranocerta on his web site here (http://lukeuedasarson.com/Tigranocerta.html).  There is not much on the look of the units, and sadly, Luke hasn't done one of his alternative DBM lists for the Armenians, but the discussion does include his usual thorough trawl of the written sources. That would prove useful for a deeper dive later. There is lots of good stuff on Lucullus' Roman forces too. 

Thanks all for the input.

The third WRG reference book was "Armies of the Greek and Persian Wars" by Richard Nelson which I think is still available via the WRG site. That has some drawings of Persian subject allies from around the Armenian area. Nearly all have circular shields, spear a light helmet, tunic and either leggings or bare legs.

Figures 94 & 95 in the AIER are useful as potentially is 91.In AMPW everything from about figure 76 to figure 85 could apply to some of Tigranes northern allies.

Based on what I've researched for my Near-Eastern armies, you could probably use a mix of late Assyrians, late Seleucid, Parthian and basic tunic clad figures without too many eyebrows being raised.

Thanks David.  I see what you mean now.  I'm sure someone at the club has a the Greek and Persian book. I'll hunt it down.

I'm also sure I can get away with a lot.  It's probably only me that even cares.

Keep Wargaming can sell / provide copies of out of print WRG army books (not thinking army list books but they have them too) see
https://www.keepwargaming.co.uk/wrg-old-and-out-of-print-titles-138-c.asp
CarlL

Thanks Carl.

I found some of Duncan's wise words in this (http://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=4731.msg62601#msg62601) old thread, started by David.  It goes some way to answering my queries about the vassals.

Quote from: Duncan Head on October 15, 2020, 03:50:16 PMMost of the art from Hatra and Edessa/Osrhoene shows Parthian-style costume by the 1st century BC or so, though it is hard to say how far down the social scale that fashion extended. I suspect that is true of all the "Arab-Aramean" states except for the Nabataeans, who seem to have been closer to their Arab roots and of course were less under Parthian influence. There is an article, though. that suggests that at Palmyra there were multiple distinct styles of dress: one the "Parthian" trousers/tunic/over-leggings/sleeved cloak that we associate with Palmyran soldiers, an "indigenous" style with "Arabian" waistcloth, and Hellenistic styles (found it: Susan Downey, "Arms and Armour as social coding in Palmyra, the Palmyrene, and Dura-Europos", in Mode (ed.) Arms and Armour as indicators of cultural transfer (https://amazon.co.uk/Arms-Armour-Indicators-Cultural-Transfer/dp/3895005290/)).

and this one from a link in that thread to here (http://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=3732).

Quote from: Duncan Head on December 14, 2018, 03:36:33 PMThe Zahhak Castle warrior is a fascinating chap who deserves a proper study, which I am not aware he has had. His shield reminds me very much of the Domitius Ahenobarbus scuta, his long robe girded up in front over tight trousers is the style worn on reliefs of Commagenean and Adiabenean kings, and his curved dagger is reminiscent of early Parthian examples - or foreign trophies - from Old Nisa. He's presumably an Atropatenean Mede. It's such a shame that the helmet (or cap?) and the spear are incomplete.

(https://i2.wp.com/www.biblioiranica.info/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Stucco-relief-of-an-infantry-soldier-from-the-Iranian-Parthian-Dynasty-247-BC-224-AD-Zahhak-castle-Hashtrud-Eastern-Azerbaijan-Iran.-Azerbaijan-Museum-Tabriz-Iran..jpg)

Great detective  (search) work Trev.
Great image too. I wonder if those 'creases' on his legs are intended to convey loose fitting trousers?
Lots of starting points there for figure hunting: a bearded, cloaked figure, carrying long & narrow 'scuta'(?) with boss and spine, dagger (... like early Saxons carrying Seax!?) spear; with possibly long coat tied at waist with belt over this, and under garment of knee length tunic and possibly loose trousers (but probably not over baggy)?

Great work Trev. Enjoy building that army.
CarlL

Quote from: CarlL on March 18, 2023, 10:14:53 AMGreat detective  (search) work Trev.
Great image too. I wonder if those 'creases' on his legs are intended to convey loose fitting trousers?
Lots of starting points there for figure hunting: a bearded, cloaked figure, carrying long & narrow 'scuta'(?) with boss and spine, dagger (... like early Saxons carrying Seax!?) spear; with possibly long coat tied at waist with belt over this, and under garment of knee length tunic and possibly loose trousers (but probably not over baggy)?

Great work Trev. Enjoy building that army.
CarlL

I would interpret it as cloak, tight-ish trousers with just enough slack to wrinkle and a calf length tunic which is hitched up with something from the belt. Tunic looks longer than 'Median' - perhaps the same length as the Elamite here https://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/clothing-ii#prettyPhoto[content]/0/
That figure also may have some kind of skirt hitcher hanging from the belt.

Quote from: CarlL on March 18, 2023, 10:14:53 AMGreat detective  (search) work Trev.

I'm just eavesdropping on the shoulders of giants.  ;)

That 'Zahhak Castle warrior' is certainly interesting.  The shoulders look cloak-like to me, perhaps with a long overcoat and thigh length under tunic.  Sadly, the headgear is too damaged to be sure if it's a helmet or a cap.   I wonder if there was any basis for the recreation of the barbed spear?   

Quote from: Swampster on March 18, 2023, 12:28:44 PMI would interpret it as cloak, tight-ish trousers with just enough slack to wrinkle and a calf length tunic which is hitched up with something from the belt. Tunic looks longer than 'Median' - perhaps the same length as the Elamite here https://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/clothing-ii#prettyPhoto[content]/0/
That figure also may have some kind of skirt hitcher hanging from the belt.

Without the cloak the coat could be similar to the Scythian/Saka figures represented on the Darius relief.  Numbers 7,8,14,15,24,25.

Several are damaged and others are lacking the folding detail though.  Here (http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Elam/Darius_tomb_page.htm) is a good picture.  Right click and open it up to see the detail or follow the link.

(http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Elam/Darius_tomb.jpg)

Trev
Great link to very clear image.
The similarities of earlier image (above) with a number of these sculpted reliefs suggests there should be figures out there in Achaemenid ranges, as well as Scythian and Parthian (and possibly some Sassanid types) to fill your army with variety of appropriate troops.
I do like to see others research even if its not 'original' (thats another debate) it still helps you get into period and focuses thinking on what you are going to 'muster' and paint.
All power to your search skills and paintbrush Trev.
CarlL

Quote from: Trev on March 18, 2023, 05:49:55 PM

Quote from: CarlL on March 18, 2023, 10:14:53 AMGreat detective  (search) work Trev.

I'm just eavesdropping on the shoulders of giants.  ;)

That 'Zahhak Castle warrior' is certainly interesting.  The shoulders look cloak-like to me, perhaps with a long overcoat and thigh length under tunic.  Sadly, the headgear is too damaged to be sure if it's a helmet or a cap.   I wonder if there was any basis for the recreation of the barbed spear?   

The curve at the hem and the creases look to me that this is part of the same garment rather than an open coat revealing an under-tunic. If the two bits going down from belt level are edges of a coat, I would have though that they would continue to the bottom of the coat.

Quote from: Swampster on March 18, 2023, 09:17:38 PMThe curve at the hem and the creases look to me that this is part of the same garment rather than an open coat revealing an under-tunic. If the two bits going down from belt level are edges of a coat, I would have though that they would continue to the bottom of the coat.

I see what you mean, it could be that.

Incidentally, I found a thread with a bit on Gordyene here (http://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=1605.msg17778#msg17778)

Armenians have always been one of my favourites, ever since I took them on in the club's Classical Age campaign. It was back in the day of WRG 6th edition when the Armenian cataphracts were only C class extra-heavy cavalry armed with javelins. The Parthians and Seleucids tore me apart but I survived the campaign with a rump of Armenians and hiding amongst my Iberian & Albanian chums.

I built the army in both 15mm and 25mm.

The 15mm army largely came from the Donnington ranges but I also had full cataphract contingents in Donnington, Essex and Tin Soldier figures - you can never have enough cataphracts I say! The horse archers are a mixture of Parthians and Skythians. I took a similar view of the Armenian infantry and plundered everything in "tunic & trousers" available. I used theuros-armed Celts rearmed with spears for the Iberian infantry. The Albanian cataphracts were Donington Sarmatians rearmed with javelins.

What a labour of love it was!

Hi Steve,

I'm pleased you've seen this discussion as it is kind of your fault.  I doubt you remember, but you, me, and the incomparable Allen Curtis, were chatting at an SOA game day many years ago about WAB, Slingshot and my ideas for a WAB Caesar book.  Sadly, the latter never came to fruition but I've always felt that I rashly promised you I'd build an Armenian army in that conversation.  As we've started playing ADLG at my club recently, now seemed a good time to look into making good on my youthful boast.  It seems I'm still not in the cool gang when it comes to rules but the moderate army sizes of ADLG make my goal more achievable.

The Armenians were one of my first armies in the heyday of DBM.  I remember swamping the Romans with masses of javelin armed elements.  Now we use Impetus, tactics have to be a little more considered.  The Tigranes' list in Impetus contains Roman style infantry – I think I have seen some archaeological evidence for this troop type.  I am due to take on my opponent's 15mm Armenian army in the near future so I shall endeavour to write up a report of the encounter.

The Imitation Legionaries are a must-have for Tigranes. It's kind-of the meglomaniacs self-delusion of fake-it-till-you'make-it.

Sadly as everyone who tried the "imitator's guide to building a legion" found out, they weren't as good as the real thing. But great for us who want variety in our armies and the chance to convert figures!

I like a good imitation legionary.  The current army I'm building is Numidians for Juba I and they have lots. ;D

My Numidian legionaries are very Roman looking but that Zahhak Castle figure could well be an imitation legionary for a more Iranian vibe.  I might go with something more like that for Tigranes' boys.

The ADLG Armenian list doesn't allow many legionaries, so I think I'd need some Phalangites as well for a solid infantry core.  The next question then is, should they wear trousers?  From memory there is little to no evidence for them but I quite fancy some trousered pikemen to use as Pantodapoi and other eastern successor types.

I would say trouser them up. Bare legs are for those wimpy Westerners.