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History => Ancient and Medieval History => Topic started by: Imperial Dave on November 03, 2017, 07:49:54 PM

Title: 700 year old Chinese shipwreck excavated
Post by: Imperial Dave on November 03, 2017, 07:49:54 PM
https://www.livescience.com/60753-china-shipwreck-from-mongols-era.html

not my field of interest normally and fascinated more by the mechanism of preservation than the details of the wreck itself
Title: Re: 700 year old Chinese shipwreck excavated
Post by: Patrick Waterson on November 03, 2017, 08:21:14 PM
The modern outlook of the archaeologists is highlighted by the following:

"The researchers also found the ship's control system, which  included a tiller located just above the control room on the ship's deck, the archaeologists wrote."

Or perhaps something was lost, or gained, in translation.  Mandarin-to-English has been at times an approximate art.
Title: Re: 700 year old Chinese shipwreck excavated
Post by: Imperial Dave on November 04, 2017, 07:42:51 AM
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on November 03, 2017, 08:21:14 PM
The modern outlook of the archaeologists is highlighted by the following:

"The researchers also found the ship's control system, which  included a tiller located just above the control room on the ship's deck, the archaeologists wrote."

Or perhaps something was lost, or gained, in translation.  Mandarin-to-English has been at times an approximate art.

and thus is how errors creep into writings....
Title: Re: 700 year old Chinese shipwreck excavated
Post by: Patrick Waterson on November 04, 2017, 04:01:57 PM
Quote from: Holly on November 04, 2017, 07:42:51 AM
and thus is how errors creep into writings....

The reason being the change in technology over the period.  Were we still using wooden sailing ships, the terminology would have corresponded.
Title: Re: 700 year old Chinese shipwreck excavated
Post by: Imperial Dave on November 04, 2017, 07:34:01 PM
sometimes translations lack exact words that convey the true (contemporary) meaning
Title: Re: 700 year old Chinese shipwreck excavated
Post by: Patrick Waterson on November 05, 2017, 08:14:44 AM
Quote from: Holly on November 04, 2017, 07:34:01 PM
sometimes translations lack exact words that convey the true (contemporary) meaning

True enough*, although in this case the concept of a tiller (and its appurtenant rudder, or the other way around) is well established in English.

*Anyone remember 'deformed man toilet' from the Peking Olympics?

But a 'control room' in a junk???  That is a misconception of modernity, not a deficient dictionary.  I wonder if the same team of archaeologists will refer to a Command Information Centre in Yuan Chinese warships ...

It is also intriguing that the vessel had "a hull sectioned into 12 cabins by 12 bulkheads," which is physically impossible - unless the missing 'cabin' is the 'control room'.

Anyway, nit-picking of the Shandong Institute of Cultural Relics and Archaeology's choice of vocabulary aside, thanks for posting this article, Dave.
Title: Re: 700 year old Chinese shipwreck excavated
Post by: Imperial Dave on November 05, 2017, 09:15:24 AM
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on November 05, 2017, 08:14:44 AM

*Anyone remember 'deformed man toilet' from the Peking Olympics?


:o
Title: Re: 700 year old Chinese shipwreck excavated
Post by: Patrick Waterson on November 05, 2017, 07:18:05 PM
Quote from: Holly on November 05, 2017, 09:15:24 AM
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on November 05, 2017, 08:14:44 AM

*Anyone remember 'deformed man toilet' from the Peking Olympics?


:o

Yes, they meant 'disabled toilet' (i.e. facilities for the disabled) but did not get the meaning quite right.