https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/nov/28/death-map-medieval-london-1300s
QuoteOn 8 December 1321 a man named William Roe visited a urinal at the top of St Vedast Foster Lane. "He cast the urine into the shoes of an unknown young man, and as the latter complained, William struck him with his fist," records known as the "coroners' rolls" reveal, adding that the unnamed young man's poleaxe clattered to the pavement in the fracas.
Philip of Ashendon then entered the fray. "[Philip] scolded William, who got angry, picked up the poleaxe and struck Philip over the forehead, inflicting a wound that penetrated to the brain."
Was it common to be walking the streets of London with a poleaxe?
A very early reference to a pole (or poll) axe. It is actually earlier than the first reference noted by the OED (1355).
Add : I looked up the write up on the Violence Research Centre website (https://www.vrc.crim.cam.ac.uk/vrcresearch/london-medieval-murder-map/historical-background)about the map. Only one other axe murder was in the sample.
Quote from: Duncan Head on November 28, 2018, 10:54:51 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/nov/28/death-map-medieval-london-1300s
QuoteOn 8 December 1321 a man named William Roe visited a urinal at the top of St Vedast Foster Lane. "He cast the urine into the shoes of an unknown young man, and as the latter complained, William struck him with his fist," records known as the "coroners' rolls" reveal, adding that the unnamed young man's poleaxe clattered to the pavement in the fracas.
Philip of Ashendon then entered the fray. "[Philip] scolded William, who got angry, picked up the poleaxe and struck Philip over the forehead, inflicting a wound that penetrated to the brain."
Was it common to be walking the streets of London with a poleaxe?
he may have been a slaughterman
http://www.livinghistory.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=34909
Interesting parallels with a recent case in which a woman intervened in an incident of sexual harassment in a McDonalds toilet, and the pleasant young man responded by assaulting her with a baseball bat.
Quote from: Jim Webster on November 29, 2018, 07:08:28 AMhe may have been a slaughterman
http://www.livinghistory.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=34909
Hadn't thought of that, Jim - makes perfect sense.
Might it be wise to prohibit the carrying of poleaxes at future Society events so as to avoid any similar escalations?
If an outright ban sounds too drastic, perhaps we should look at only booking events at venues with separate toilet cubicles?
Quote from: Duncan Head on November 29, 2018, 08:52:36 AM
Quote from: Jim Webster on November 29, 2018, 07:08:28 AMhe may have been a slaughterman
http://www.livinghistory.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=34909
Hadn't thought of that, Jim - makes perfect sense.
A quick google shows at this end of Cheapside there was a shambles (essentially, an area for slaughter and butchery of animals) and Smithfield meat market just beyond. Very plausible explanation.
Quote from: Duncan Head on November 29, 2018, 08:52:36 AM
Quote from: Jim Webster on November 29, 2018, 07:08:28 AMhe may have been a slaughterman
http://www.livinghistory.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=34909
Hadn't thought of that, Jim - makes perfect sense.
in an infinite universe, even Jim will occasionally be right ;)
Further reading of the OED etymology section (sad, isn't it?) shows the earliest recorded form to be polhache in 1324, which gave us the obsolete variant pollhache = pollaxe. I wonder what the original murder record says and in what language?
Quote from: Erpingham on November 29, 2018, 07:11:13 PM
Further reading of the OED etymology section (sad, isn't it?) shows the earliest recorded form to be polhache in 1324, which gave us the obsolete variant pollhache = pollaxe. I wonder what the original murder record says and in what language?
Your wish is my command:
QuoteEt quidam Willelmus tunc rector ecclesie de Achirche fiiit presens in contencione predicta et percussit dictum Willelmum de Swyneforde qui fuit presens in capite per quod recepit mortem, set loquebatur, confessus fuit et communicatus et vixit per sex dies et tunc moriebatur. Tichemers et Thorp cum Achirche dicunt per sacramentum quod quidam Johannes tunc rector ecclesie Omnium Sanctorum in Aldewyncle fait presens in ilia contencione predicta et percussit dictum Willelmum de quodam pollax in capite per quod recepit mortem. Dictus Willelmus rector ecclesie de Achirche post illud factum fugit nescitur quo. Ideo preceptum est quod attachietur. . . .
from "Select cases from the coroners' rolls, A.D. 1265-1413 : with a brief account of the history of the office of coroner" https://archive.org/stream/selectcasesfromc00seldrich/selectcasesfromc00seldrich_djvu.txt
Thank you Duncan. Latin quoting an English word, I think, and earlier than the earliest use quoted by the OED.
Add: Actually, this is a different case. The offence happened in Thrapston Northants in July 1301. As the attacker was a rector, it is more likely it was a weapon rather than a slaughterman's equipment this time. Interestingly, the weapon is also spellt polhache earlier in the document, showing they were used interchangeably.
What a load of pollax ... I clearly pollax'd that up a bit, and Anthony's read it far more carefully; I should have looked at the surrounding text, not just the key word.
Quote from: Duncan Head on November 30, 2018, 10:28:46 AM
What a load of pollax ... I clearly pollax'd that up a bit, and Anthony's read it far more carefully; I should have looked at the surrounding text, not just the key word.
mainly because i spotted the names of places near where I grew up, so was drawn into it :)
Quote from: Erpingham on November 30, 2018, 09:46:37 AM
Add: Actually, this is a different case. The offence happened in Thrapston Northants in July 1301. As the attacker was a rector, it is more likely it was a weapon rather than a slaughterman's equipment this time. Interestingly, the weapon is also spellt polhache earlier in the document, showing they were used interchangeably.
The church Militant 8)
Quote from: Jim Webster on November 30, 2018, 11:32:24 AM
Quote from: Erpingham on November 30, 2018, 09:46:37 AM
Add: Actually, this is a different case. The offence happened in Thrapston Northants in July 1301. As the attacker was a rector, it is more likely it was a weapon rather than a slaughterman's equipment this time. Interestingly, the weapon is also spellt polhache earlier in the document, showing they were used interchangeably.
The church Militant 8)
He'd obviously never read that bit where clerics are only allowed to carry maces to avoid spilling blood.
Quote from: Duncan Head on November 28, 2018, 10:54:51 AM
Was it common to be walking the streets of London with a poleaxe?
Well they didn't have uzis or pepper spray in those days...