Illyrian Slaves

[ahowl11]

Hello, I've been trying to figure out lately if the Illyrians used slaves in warfare? There's a couple mods that feature 'Slave Slingers' or 'Slave Javelinmen' but I have not found any evidence of this being accurate. Figured you guys would know. Thanks in advance!

[Patrick Waterson]

I find references to Illyrian 'armed slaves' in various lists and all over the internet, but have not yet found the source quotes or other original evidence on which these are based.  Until I manage to find them or one of our other members points them out, assume it is one of those 'everyone knows but nobody knows where' wargamer truths.

[ahowl11]

Actually, Duncan mentions them in his AMPW book.
''Illyrian slaves (were usually drawn from subject tribes) and fought with the equipment of poor, lower class Illyrians, but others might have worn remnants of their original national costume- (...) including Greeks and Italics.'' (Duncan Head, Armies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars, p. 254)

"The Illyrian tribes inhabited the area of modern Albania and Yugoslavia. The various tribes there rarely combined for any action, each preferring to be at war with its neighbors for the loot and slaves to be acquired. The warriors usually fought alongside of their slaves, some nobles being able to field several hundred slaves.'' (James R. Ashley, the Macedonian Empire 2004, p. 17)

Now my question is this:
Did they have hoplite kit or not?

[Mark G]

Hoplite kit would seem a bit pointless if there weren't enough similarly equipped blokes next to you to make the shield thing work.

[Jim Webster]

we've discussed this one before http://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=2024.msg23466#msg23466

I started it with

Just looking again at Dio Sic 15:13:2

While these events were taking place, in Sicily Dionysius, the tyrant of the Syracusans, resolved to plant cities on the Adriatic Sea. His idea in doing this was to get control of the Ionian Sea,1 in order that he might make the route to Epeirus safe and have there his own cities which could give haven to ships. For it was his intent to descend unexpectedly with great armaments upon the regions about Epeirus and to sack the temple at Delphi, which was filled with great wealth. [2] Consequently he made an alliance with the Illyrians with the help of Alcetas the Molossian, who was at the time an exile and spending his days in Syracuse. Since the Illyrians were at war, he dispatched to them an allied force of two thousand soldiers and five hundred suits of Greek armour. The Illyrians distributed the suits of armour among their choicest warriors and incorporated the soldiers among their own troops.

The reason I was looking at it again was that Christopher Matthew in 'An Invincible Beast' uses this section to 'show' that the Illyrians were largely fighting as hoplites.

(Diodorus on the other hand describes the Illyrians as fighting as Hoplites by 385BC)

Pondering this, I've always just assumed that the five hundred panoplies could have been as easily worn by 'auxilia' or even 'warband' as by 'spear'. But it's the 2000 soldiers he sent. If they were incorporated amongst their own troops, they must have fought in a reasonably similar manner (and spoken a reasonably similar language).

So I'm left wondering what the Greek word was that was translated as 'Incorporated' or what sort of troops were sent

Jim


there's some discussion after it that could interest you

[Duncan Head]

Actually, Duncan mentions them in his AMPW book.
''Illyrian slaves (were usually drawn from subject tribes) and fought with the equipment of poor, lower class Illyrians..."

And I have finally managed to retrieve my source for this:

But Agatharchides the Cnidian, in the thirty-eighth book of his history of the Affairs of Europe, says that the Dardanians had great numbers of slaves, some of them having a thousand, and some even more; and that in time of peace they were all employed in the cultivation of the land; but that in time of war they were all divided into regiments ("lochizesthai", "divided into lochoi"), each set of slaves having their own master for their commander.

Wilkes, The Illyrians, says that these are subject communities rather than chattel-slaves.