News:

Welcome to the SoA Forum.  You are welcome to browse through and contribute to the Forums listed below.

Main Menu

Roman Pilum Throwing - Javelin & Shield Roman Army Style

Started by Imperial Dave, February 29, 2020, 12:42:15 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

RichT

I was wondering who would be first to mention that :)

The trouble with Arrian's passage is it is so unclear what sort of weapons he is talking about:

"And the front four ranks of the formation must be of spearmen [kontophoroi, kontos-carriers], whose spearpoints [kontois] end in thin iron shanks. And the foremost of them should hold them at the ready, in order that when the enemies near them, they can thrust the iron points of the spears [konton] at the breast of the horses in particular... Those standing in second, third and fourth rank of the formation must hold their spears [kontous] ready for thrusting if possible, wounding the horses and killing the horsemen and put the rider out of action with the spear [kontou] stuck in their heavy body armour and the iron point bent because of the softness." (Arrian, Ektaxis 16 f.)

What does Arrian mean by 'kontos'? Familiar to us all of course as a cavalry lance, probably here a general word for spear, maybe referring to a Roman pilum, but then why use kontos? Why not hussos, or akontion? So is Arrian describing pila, but using strange terminology, or is a describing some different weapon, perhaps one devised for use in this formation? And anyway what is the point of the bending iron of the kontos - what is gained by it being bendy when it is thrust? It might be a description of Romans using pila for thrusting and throwing, but it's not certain.

So I don't think this passage helps greatly - it is at best unclear and not a definite description of bendy pila. (Caesar BG 1.25.4 is, reading it again, quite strong evidence for bendy pila so I don't want to just explain it away completely, but at best I think it is ambiguous).

Incidentally Arrian's 'bending' is the verb from my old chum, epikampios.


aligern

Arrian's 'bending' is problematic for a contos, if contos means the barge -pole  lance...why would that bend and if it did why would that be beneficial. I suggest that the bending is useful because the Sarmatians  are  shieldless, but heavily armoured and having a weighty spear hanging from your armour of  lamellar/ scale is highly inconvenient.
I suggest that 'thrusting' might happily include throwing at someone very close. The description of what the ranks do can be usefully be paralleled with the duties of ranks in a foulkon  formation where the front ranks are geared to stopping a charging mounted opponent, whilst the rear ranks throw spears overhead at the attackers.
Roy

Jim Webster

Quote from: aligern on March 02, 2020, 10:38:42 PM
Arrian's 'bending' is problematic for a contos, if contos means the barge -pole  lance...why would that bend and if it did why would that be beneficial. I suggest that the bending is useful because the Sarmatians  are  shieldless, but heavily armoured and having a weighty spear hanging from your armour of  lamellar/ scale is highly inconvenient.

Which is true, but a weighty spear going through your armour and sticking into you is contra-indicated by all the best medical authorities  ;)

Duncan Head

In addition, the text of that section of Arrian is apparently quite uncertain: see http://www.fectio.org.uk/articles/arrian.htm
Duncan Head

Erpingham

We might also note that slighty further on in the passage, Arrian gives a slightly different version

And the expectation is that the Scythians will not get close to the infantry battle formation because of the tremendous weight of missiles. If they do close in though, the first three ranks should lock their shields and press their shoulders and receive the charge as strongly as possible in the most closely ordered formation bound together in the strongest manner. The fourth rank will throw their javelins overhead and the first rank will stab at them and their horses with their spears without pause.

The fact that in this, the receiving formation only stabs with the first rank weapons doesn't imply, to me at least, we are dealing with long spears.  That said, this isn't entirely contradictory.  A three rank brace to take the impact and rank four puts in a contact volley , then ranks 2-4 are ready to get in there and thrust if the horsemen manage to break past rank one. 

Whether we are dealing with the classic long pilum or the shorter headed version which later (according to Vegetius) is called a spiculum, I wouldn't know.

RichT

Interesting article, Duncan. Not sure I agree about a topos (what topos?), or the fourth taxis, but certainly Arrian's text is unreliable.

I struggle to see any point (ha) in a spear of any sort that bends when you poke someone with it. For what benefit? For the throwing pilum it's supposedly so it can't be thrown back, or to encumber the shield; but a thrust weapon?

Also it's a reminder of how maddeningly imprecise Greek (and Latin) writing could be - the whole taxis (and ordo) thing drives me crazy (just look at Herodotus' uses of taxis for examples).

Erpingham

On bendy thrusting spears, I am reminded (because I read an article about it yesterday) of Grasitha, the spear of Sturla Sighvatsson, ancient but not strong, which he had to keep straightening with his foot as it bent with each thrust.  This was probably a long bladed spear, rather than a long shanked one, and likely suffering from "bendy sword" type issues.

So, a long bladed spear might be indicated by Arrian.  Menaulion anyone :)

RichT

Yes the bending may be another bug not feature, and Arrian just makes a big deal of it.

Here's a slightly more literal translaiton of the important bits:

16-17
And they should be drawn up in eight, and the formation should be close order. And the first four ranks (taxeis) should be kontophoroi, whose large kontoi have light iron points. And the front rank (protostai) should hold them projecting forward, so that when the enemies get near, they can better thrust the iron of the kontos at the breast of the horse. The second rank (deuterostatai) and the third and fourth ranks (taxeis) holding forward their kontoi for thrusting when possible, wounding the horses and killing the riders, fixing the kontos in the shield (thureos) and armour (thorax) and making the rider useless through the awkwardness of the bent iron. The following ranks (taxeis) should be lonchophoroi.

26-7
If they do close in, the first three ranks (taxeis) should draw together their shields and press their shoulders and receive the charge as strongly as possible pressed together in closest order. The fourth will throw over their lonches and the first will throw their kontoi unceasingly at them and the horses.


The three main problems seem to me to be:
- the bending of the iron (hard to see what Arrian is getting at)
- the four ranks of kontophoroi of 16-7 seem to have become three at 26-7. Possibly the explanation of taxis being used in a different sense is correct, but I'm more inclined to believe Arrian (or a copyist) just made a mistake (maybe at 26 he meant to say 'those behind the fourth').
- the 'throwing' (akontizein) of kontoi at 27. Up until then it has made perfect sense with thrust kontoi and thrown lonches. This looks like another mistake.

I don't think this is a descripton of pila at all - I think the first three or four ranks are a phalanx of spear-armed infantry, backed by four (or five) ranks of javelin (or possibly pila) throwers. 

Andreas Johansson

Quote from: RichT on March 03, 2020, 10:31:48 AM
- the 'throwing' (akontizein) of kontoi at 27. Up until then it has made perfect sense with thrust kontoi and thrown lonches. This looks like another mistake.

A spear suitable for both thrusting and throwing would hardly be nonsensical*, but I'm a bit troubled by the "unceasingly" bit - how many are they supposed to be carrying? Could the second "throw" be a copyist's error for "thrust"?


* Relevantly or not, Arrian's description of bunching up to resist a charge reminds me of the Strategicon, where different ranks are to either throw or thrust with their spears.
Lead Mountain 2024
Acquired: 120 infantry, 44 cavalry, 0 chariots, 14 other
Finished: 72 infantry, 0 cavalry, 0 chariots, 3 other

Duncan Head

Quote from: Andreas Johansson on March 03, 2020, 12:25:33 PMRelevantly or not, Arrian's description of bunching up to resist a charge reminds me of the Strategicon, where different ranks are to either throw or thrust with their spears.

Philip Rance's article (and his earlier foulkon article) suggest it's very relevant indeed, in that Strategikon 12.A.7 is a reworking of Arrian.
Duncan Head

Erpingham

Rance also quotes Plutarch's Antony as another exemplar of similar tactics

However, as the Romans were descending some steep hills, the Parthians attacked them and shot at them as they slowly moved along. Then the shield-bearers wheeled about, enclosing the lighter armed troops within their ranks, while they themselves dropped on one knee and held their shields out before them. The second rank held their shields out over the heads of the first, and the next rank likewise. The resulting appearance is very like that of a roof, affords a striking spectacle, and is the most effective of protections against arrows, which glide off from it. [3] The Parthians, however, thinking that the Romans dropping on one knee was a sign of fatigue and exhaustion, laid aside their bows, grasped their spears by the middle and came to close quarters. But the Romans, with a full battle cry, suddenly sprang up, and thrusting with their javelins slew the foremost of the Parthians and put all the rest to rout. Antony, 45 (2, 3)

Note this is actually similar to the Strategikon foulkon, with a kneeling front rank and shields over the front rank, which are not mentioned by Arrian.  However, again the 3-4 rank outer shell with shooters behind.  In (3), we have javelin thrusting again (Greek word unknown).


RichT

Looking at Rance pp. 246-7 and n. 84 I think the text may be just hopeless.

I see incidentally that the 'thrusting' of the kontoi in the original translation (and mine) is actually akontismos, javelin-throwing. So throwing of the kontoi does seem to be a thing (but ceaselessly? After the cavalry have closed to contact? Stabbing certainly makes more sense in the context).

It has to be said that neither the Taktika nor the Ektaxis fill one with awe at Arrian's depth of knowledge or clarity of expression.

Plutarch, Antony 45.2-3
"Then the shield-bearers wheeled about" - thureophoroi  (Greek for Romans, scutum-carriers)
"The Parthians ... grasped their spears" - kontoi (!)
"But the Romans ... thrusting with their javelins" - hussoi (Greek for pila)

kai tois hussois paiontes ek cheiros - 'striking with the pila by hand'

Is Arrian evidence of thrown spears or thrust pila? Or both? Or neither? And are they bendy?

Andreas Johansson

I evidently need to re-read the Rance piece. But one wonders if Maurice had a better version of Arrian's text than we do.

The Plutarch passage is also interesting in describing Parthian horsemen armed with both bows and spears/lances, which you'd look for in vain in many army lists.
Lead Mountain 2024
Acquired: 120 infantry, 44 cavalry, 0 chariots, 14 other
Finished: 72 infantry, 0 cavalry, 0 chariots, 3 other

Erpingham

Quote from: Andreas Johansson on March 03, 2020, 03:40:14 PM
I evidently need to re-read the Rance piece. But one wonders if Maurice had a better version of Arrian's text than we do.


Reading the newer Rance paper, there is some doubt whether Maurice saw Arrian's text at all but worked from an intermediate source. 

aligern

I do worry, Richard, that you have decided that pika  are not bendy and are fitting the evidence around tgat belief...which is not your normal methodology.
Many years ago it was taken by some that the passage in Arrian was evidence that later legionaries had moved to using long spears  and indeed a friend showed me a PB ( how apt) Minifig that ported such a spear. I recall that lately the conclusion became tgat Arrian was misusing the word contos  ( or should  I say held to be misusing it by fellows who had decided it had only one meaning and that  a long spear) and tgat later legionaries had throwing shafted weapons and could use them as dual ourpose when closing up to  cavalry.  That was good because it disposed of the idea that late legionaries formed blocks of long spear men and were secondary to the new cavalry.

Incidentally, thinking of the menaulion doesn't the same  ( 10th century? ) Byzantibe source have rear rankers throwing long spears at charging cavalry?
Even so, I don't think there is supporting evidence for legionary long spears in Arrian's time and thus we ought to conclude that his back rankers are throwing pika which stick in the Sarmatians' armour and bend, thus discomfiting them.

Roy