In the DBMM late Imperial Roman army list I note you can have four bases of rioting religious mob (only in eastern armies 399 AD). Who were these guys and why would they be fighting as part of an army? Christians objecting to the Polytheism revival? which 15mm figures do folks deem suitable?
Thanks
Martyn
Saw your query on dbmmlist, but I'm afraid I don't know the answer. There are a lot of Late Roman religious riots, especially in Egypt - mainly Christians rioting against other Christians, or against the Jews - but I don't think I know of an instance where you'd see rioters lining up with a proper army. Maybe some Egyptian revolt or usurpation?
Quote from: Duncan Head on July 10, 2017, 10:39:15 AM
Saw your query on dbmmlist, but I'm afraid I don't know the answer. There are a lot of Late Roman religious riots, especially in Egypt - mainly Christians rioting against other Christians, or against the Jews - but I don't think I know of an instance where you'd see rioters lining up with a proper army. Maybe some Egyptian revolt or usurpation?
I think there are accounts of rioting mobs accompanying military forces to tear down a temple or to destroy a religious site but these are not what you'd call a proper military expedition.
Then there are the forces of Synesius as Bishop of Syrene. He had a right mixed bag of forces helping cope with the raids of the Moorish nomads. In one account he mentions the activities of a Deacon
"This is a long ravine, deep and covered with forests. The barbarians, when they found no resistance in their way, rashly entered this dangerous defile, but they had to meet the valiant Faustus, the deacon of the church. This man, unarmed, when marching at the head of his troops, was himself the first to encounter a hoplite. He snatches up a stone, not to hurl it, but, holding it in his hand and leaping upon him as with a clenched fist he strikes the other violently on the temple. He knocks him down, strips him of his armour, and heaps many of the barbarians upon him. If any other man gave proof of courage in that battle, it is to Faustus that credit is due, both on account of his personal bravery, and for the orders which he gave at the critical moment."
Whether rioting mob is appropriate for some of these 'troops' is moot. But frankly if it's an army it's only DBMM 100/200
I did an article with list, in Slingshot, "It's the Bishop"
Jim
AD 399 is the year of Gainas usurpation in Constantinople. Something to do with that? As an Arian, Gainas should be well suited to provoke religious riots.
Well spotted, Andreas. Short account of Gainas' adventure at http://www.ehw.gr/asiaminor/Forms/fLemmaBody.aspx?lemmaid=9981
It suggests that an angry "avid Christian" (that is, anti-Arian) mob took part in the massacre of Gainas' Gothic followers, though (a) strictly, that would be in 400 not 399, and (b) I haven't yet seen a specific reference to soldiers supporting the mob.
But is it something that should be in an "Army List" for fighting pitched battles?
Although, I should talk, as I have the biggest army of rioting Judaean mob I've ever seen on a tabletop......
Quote from: stevenneate on July 11, 2017, 01:31:05 PM
Although, I should talk, as I have the biggest army of rioting Judaean mob I've ever seen on a tabletop......
PFJ?
No, JPF. I wouldn't model those other splitters!
The Popular Front is a cheap element to do :)
What have they ever done for figure sculpting then, eh.
I'm a wargamer and so's my wife.....
An earlier reference may be Valen's wife arming the citizens of Constantinople to fight alongside the regular troops to repulse Fritigern's Goths. This was in 378/379 though.
Another reference would be the mob who turned on the Goths stationed by Valens in Adrianopole in 376.