I saw this the other day...
(https://imgur.com/t3K8WlC.jpg)
https://imgur.com/t3K8WlC (https://imgur.com/t3K8WlC)
...a hoplite's grave stele.
I was just wondering whether his left hand was holding a grip that was unusually close/on the rim?
Or is it perhaps just an abstraction of the more familiar and more detailed...
(https://i.imgur.com/QKRmQgp.jpg)
https://i.imgur.com/QKRmQgp (https://i.imgur.com/QKRmQgp)
Sorry for the false start, I've discovered how to do the photo insert thing!!
Looks to me like a slight distortion to fit the shield in the space avaiable.
Looks to me like a no entry sign...
When I commented two days ago, the images were visible. Now they're not.
Quote from: Duncan Head on January 01, 2019, 03:26:06 PM
When I commented two days ago, the images were visible. Now they're not.
This will depend upon whether and when Nicholas is online, the images being based in his computer.
[
Edit: gave 'will' its second 'l'.]
OK. I am confused.
In this thread I have included a URL for the pictures as a link, and used the identical URL for the "img".
The link works but the IMG does not.
Why is that?
IIRC Google hosted photos do not appear on forums - they don't allow it. You need to use a different host - I use Imgur but Flickr, Photobucket and others work as well.
Quote from: nikgaukroger on January 03, 2019, 08:21:32 AM
IIRC Google hosted photos do not appear on forums - they don't allow it.
Thanks!
I was feeling really stupid there for a moment.
Quote from: Dangun on January 03, 2019, 11:18:00 AM
Quote from: nikgaukroger on January 03, 2019, 08:21:32 AM
IIRC Google hosted photos do not appear on forums - they don't allow it.
Thanks!
I was feeling really stupid there for a moment.
I think you could upload a photo to a yahoo group photo section (e.g. ancmed) and link from there. But I haven't tried.
Quote from: Erpingham on January 03, 2019, 11:20:32 AM
I think you could upload a photo to a yahoo group photo section (e.g. ancmed) and link from there. But I haven't tried.
I switched to IMGUR, and it seems to be working...
One article (https://www.academia.edu/32856593/_Warfare_and_the_Cypriot_kingdoms_military_ideology_and_the_Cypriot_monarch_._In_M._Iacovou_and_M._Hadjopoulos_eds_Basileis_and_the_Poleis_on_the_island_of_Cyprus_Cahier_du_Centre_d_%C3%89tudes_Chypriotes_44_2014_153-190) suggests that this stele, the monument to Dionysios of Kardia (https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-funerary-stele-of-a-greek-hoplite-73527) from Cyprus, may be:
Quoteprobably the earliest example and the closest that Cypriot art ever came to the depiction of a hoplite, although Cypriots were probably aware of the hoplitic tactics and equipment since the Archaic period.
So it may just be that the sculptor wasn't familiar with the problems of a convincing depiction of the hoplite shield and its grip.
Quote from: Duncan Head on January 03, 2019, 11:36:45 AM
So it may just be that the sculptor wasn't familiar with the problems of a convincing depiction of the hoplite shield and its grip.
I liked your earlier suggestion even better - the problem of depicting a large round object on a tall thin one. The person would have been carved first - its a bit higher - and then the sculptor may have gone "bugger... I wanted to keep it all to scale."
Images are present and correct now. :)
I wonder if this particular relief was meant to be a depiction of a shield managed by a strap rather than the usual handle arrangement. Just a guess, really; the elbow seems to be in the wrong place for the usual porpax.
Or it might be intended to depict one of these (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoplite#/media/File:Squatting_warrior_Staatliche_Antikensammlungen_8966.jpg).
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on January 03, 2019, 07:42:45 PMOr it might be intended to depict one of these (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoplite#/media/File:Squatting_warrior_Staatliche_Antikensammlungen_8966.jpg).
Boiotian shields are shown as oval, not round, so I suspect probably not.
Or rather one of these (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoplite#/media/File:Spartan_hoplite-1_from_Vinkhuijzen.jpg).
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on January 04, 2019, 10:51:04 AM
Or rather one of these (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoplite#/media/File:Spartan_hoplite-1_from_Vinkhuijzen.jpg).
A 19th century reconstruction? Are you suggesting it is a fake?
Quote from: Erpingham on January 04, 2019, 10:58:07 AM
Are you suggesting it is a fake?
No, just that the 19th century reconstruction may be of the kind of shield Nicholas' relief depicts. It seems a better fit than anything we have tried so far.
Quote from: Dangun on December 28, 2018, 06:39:16 PM
I saw this the other day...
I was just wondering whether his left hand was holding a grip that was unusually close/on the rim?
Or is it perhaps just an abstraction of the more familiar and more detailed...
Three possibilities I see:
Do you know the date? It looks very late to me. This may mean the artist took some liberties with a grip he had never really seen used.
It could reflect a realistic late aspis. A grip like this would make some sense of the huge "pelta" on the Pergamum relief- the only image of Sarissaphoroi in action that we have. A grip there would allow the left hand to hold a sarissa shaft.
Are you sure he is holding a grip and not something else in his left hand? Hoplites are often shown holding spears and other things in the left hand while holding the shields on the arm.
Quote from: PMBardunias on January 04, 2019, 09:16:48 PM
Do you know the date?
Its labelled as c. 400 BC. Not sure if that makes it late or early?
Its the funerary stele of a hoplite from Kardia in Thrace, but who died in Cyprus.
Quote from: Dangun on January 05, 2019, 06:51:27 AMIts labelled as c. 400 BC. Not sure if that makes it late or early?
Its the funerary stele of a hoplite from Kardia in Thrace, but who died in Cyprus.
Or to be more precise, it is identified as c.400 BC with a 3rd-century inscription: so I suppose it may not originally have been Dionysios' monument, but have been re-used for him?
Quote from: Duncan Head on January 07, 2019, 09:16:54 AM
Quote from: Dangun on January 05, 2019, 06:51:27 AMIts labelled as c. 400 BC. Not sure if that makes it late or early?
Its the funerary stele of a hoplite from Kardia in Thrace, but who died in Cyprus.
Or to be more precise, it is identified as c.400 BC with a 3rd-century inscription: so I suppose it may not originally have been Dionysios' monument, but have been re-used for him?
A date of 400BC suprises me. The grip is actually the least of the problems with the shield. It has no porpax, and if it did, the porpax would have to be in the place that the antilabe usually is. That helmet is odd as well for a 5thc hoplite. I would have guessed a date closer to the inscription date.