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History => Ancient and Medieval History => Topic started by: Swampster on October 08, 2023, 06:47:07 PM

Title: Two painted South Italian tombs found
Post by: Swampster on October 08, 2023, 06:47:07 PM
http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/68440

http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/68456
Title: Re: Two painted South Italian tombs found
Post by: DBS on October 09, 2023, 03:08:56 PM
It will be interesting if a line drawing is published in due course of the cavalryman, or a better photo if/when it is cleaned up a tad.

Thank you for the post.
Title: Re: Two painted South Italian tombs found
Post by: Erpingham on October 09, 2023, 03:25:07 PM
Quote from: DBS on October 09, 2023, 03:08:56 PMIt will be interesting if a line drawing is published in due course of the cavalryman, or a better photo if/when it is cleaned up a tad.


This is quite good.  Shame the crack goes through the middle of the shield though.

(https://www.classicult.it/la-t-10043-da-pontecagnano-il-ritorno-del-guerriero/355365548_654760603356581_708257941371220890_n/)

The original of this here (https://www.classicult.it/la-t-10043-da-pontecagnano-il-ritorno-del-guerriero/) is enlargeable
Title: Re: Two painted South Italian tombs found
Post by: Duncan Head on October 09, 2023, 03:50:16 PM
The horseman does appear to have a large round shield, though, which is unusual in the South Italian painted tombs. And I think I can see a central spine, though damaged by that big crack, running across the shield at an angle.

And is it just me, or does the skull of that helmet look more Montefortino than the Italo-Attic we usually see?
Title: Re: Two painted South Italian tombs found
Post by: Jon Freitag on October 09, 2023, 03:51:35 PM
Quote from: Erpingham on October 09, 2023, 03:25:07 PMThis is quite good.  Shame the crack goes through the middle of the shield though.
I wonder if this is another immutable law of wargaming?  Add to "Battles are often fought where two maps meet" that "Shield designs are often obscured by cracks". 
Title: Re: Two painted South Italian tombs found
Post by: Erpingham on October 09, 2023, 04:03:09 PM
Quote from: Duncan Head on October 09, 2023, 03:50:16 PMAnd is it just me, or does the skull of that helmet look more Montefortino than the Italo-Attic we usually see?

I have nothing like your expertise but I thought that on looking at the close up.  You can even see the knob on the top if you squint. The facial hair looks different too.
Title: Re: Two painted South Italian tombs found
Post by: Swampster on October 09, 2023, 06:24:42 PM
Quote from: Erpingham on October 09, 2023, 04:03:09 PM
Quote from: Duncan Head on October 09, 2023, 03:50:16 PMAnd is it just me, or does the skull of that helmet look more Montefortino than the Italo-Attic we usually see?

I have nothing like your expertise but I thought that on looking at the close up.  You can even see the knob on the top if you squint. The facial hair looks different too.

https://www.classicult.it/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/356086197_654760736689901_7423287651043957457_n.jpg from an Italian version. Does pretty much like a Montefortino. The facial hair looks rather Napoleon III-esque rather than the chinstrap often seen in Italy. I don't think it is just an effect of the cracking plaster.
The way the shield is slung quite low amkes me wonder whether he is more mounted infantry than cavalryman.

I'm pleased to see this about a week after I have painted some Italians wearing the same colour tunic.
Title: Re: Two painted South Italian tombs found
Post by: DBS on October 09, 2023, 06:51:08 PM
The shield seems huge, regardless of whether cavalry or mounted infanteer - just artistic licence?
Title: Re: Two painted South Italian tombs found
Post by: Duncan Head on October 09, 2023, 08:03:54 PM
The long spear he's carrying - note the rear half above the horse's tail - is unusual for Italian tombs of the 4th century, and that plus the round ribbed shield reminds me of somewhat later Roman and allied coins - like

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces184617.html
https://www.coinarchives.com/fff4c104ca7a1ebc17e740c483a03d54/img/jacquier/051-052/image00110.jpg