I've often mentioned historical reenacting and reenactors in some of the discussions I have been party to on these forums and so I thought it might be useful to point out a few of the better weblinks on this thread....
http://livinghistory.co.uk/forums/
http://www.durolitum.co.uk/ironage.html
http://www.vikingsonline.org.uk/events/index.php
http://www.vicus.org.uk/kitguide/index.htm
http://comitatus.net/
http://www.plantagenet.org.uk/
http://www.herlid.org.uk/friends-and-rivals.html
http://www.re-enactmentsupplies.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=49
Alas the group I used to fight with no longer exists although we were affiliated to the Plantagenets (as listed above)
And yes it IS fun :)
Nice to know: thanks, Dave.
Its not everyone's cup of tea but I found it both fun and instructive. Some guys went to extraordinary lengths to ensure that they were authentic for the period they represented. In fact we used to have 2 campsites when on "tour". The general reenactors in what was refered to as the "plastic" camp and the top guys in the "authenti" camp. There were conversations/discussions (arguments!) about fine details of kit such as styles of quillons on swords being correct or not for the time period.
Dont get me started on kit mind..... I had a sword commissioned and had a pair of hand made shoes too and reenactors "fayres" were a nightmare for getting rid of lots of cash!
We had some Germans stay with us last year who had walked across the highlands of Scotland in full costume, a pict (who picked the route) and two Vikings.
They even had restricted themselves to authentic food and food containers.
Naturally, they all had archeology degrees. And they concluded Scotland is too settled, as even trying to avoid them, they went through two pairs of shoes crossing metaled roads in a week.
Quote from: Mark G on May 13, 2014, 07:24:20 AM
We had some Germans stay with us last year who had walked across the highlands of Scotland in full costume, a pict (who picked the route) and two Vikings.
They even had restricted themselves to authentic food and food containers.
Naturally, they all had archeology degrees. And they concluded Scotland is too settled, as even trying to avoid them, they went through two pairs of shoes crossing metaled roads in a week.
Thats interesting re the shoes. I had a pair of authentic hand made leather shoes and the soles were as tough as....erm.....old boots! Lasted me well although wet grass was a nightmare. I know some of our lads went for the soft "doeskin" mocassins for comfort and surprisingly good grip but I opted for leather soled shoes
Speaking of footwear, I remember reading that a group of Imperial Roman army reenactrors found that their carefully crafted reproductions of caligae had straps break in the same location as authentic caligae found by archaeologists in the garbage dumps at Roman military sites under excavation. I thought it was an interesting bit of information that pointed out the knowledge that could be gained by using proper reproductions of ancient military equipment.
The question I'd ask is "If this was such an obvious fault, why on earth didn't the Romans fix it?" ???
Jim
good points re the Roman footwear. Maybe the massed production of the shoes is a clue in this. ie the state fabricae knocked out hundreds of thousands of these shoes to a standard pattern and perhaps it was easier to just replace broken shoes with new ones that do "bespoke" footwear for individuals. I guess the other question is whether richer legionaries bought shoes "privately" if they didnt get on with the state issued ones?
I remember somewhere that the shoes belonged to the legion but the legionary put his own nails in, which explains why there is no standard pattern of nails on the bottom.
This is from memory and should not be confused with a face :-[
Jim
well, if true, maybe some legionaries were less hamfisted than others or at least knew how to strengthen the exisiting shoes...? ie here's your basic shoe....and then they "blinged" it up according to affluence and/or experience
Quote from: Jim Webster on May 18, 2014, 07:10:20 AM
The question I'd ask is "If this was such an obvious fault, why on earth didn't the Romans fix it?" ???
Jim
I recall reading something on SBS in the falklands War where they had all re-equipped themselves with hiking boots from an outdoor pursuits store because the issue ones were known to be less than waterproof (and, indeed, there were cases of trench foot in the Falklands). If a modern, hi tech army was issued with rubbish boots, with all he possibilities it had for feedback from the front, perhaps this was the problem the Romans had too - the troops knew the weakness but couldn't feed that back up the supply chain to influence the design?
Either that, or we are basing our reconstruction on a load of boots that were defective :)
Which is indeed possible, although I would by preference go with the 'official inertia' explanation: if the footwear was generally good enough then the occasional failure after x hundred miles would be expected, tolerated and allowed for.
One may remember Iphicrates repatterning Greek military footwear, even though the latter had been in use for centuries, and the change being universally approved. Rome perhaps lacked an Iphicrates.
Agreed, we are talking mass production versus bespoke ideals. Any vast military organisation suffers from poor equipment spec and production from time to time. If the fabricae were using a standard pattern maybe it did take forever to authorise (officially) a new version?
Quote from: Jim Webster on May 18, 2014, 07:10:20 AM
The question I'd ask is "If this was such an obvious fault, why on earth didn't the Romans fix it?" ???
Jim
Government contract awarded to a senator's brother-in-law? ;)
You never know Chuck :) Like today, things get built with budgets that spiral out of control and money gets skimmed off by all and sundry. Maybe the same with Roman shoe manufacture....stranger things have happened ::)
This reminds me of this Battle of the Bulge video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97UALYcJcdk). German leather boots were simpler in design than American ones, and had the rough side of the leather on the inside. The US boots were more sophisticated in design with the rough side outwards so the waterproofing wax could be absorbed by the leather - but they didn't work. Result: thousands of American troops were put out of action by trench foot in the cold damp conditions of the Ardennes. The Germans were fine.
Interestingly, if you completely waterproof a boot, you can also increase the chance of trenchfoot because the boots cannot "breathe" ie your feet stew in their own sweat. This can be offset by having good socks (wool) and regular "airing" of feet
Lessons learnt very early on when I first took up hill walking. Interestingly and completely off topic but I now walk in trail shoes with wool socks in all but the worst of weather conditions when out walking in the hills. :)
Ironically, I tend to walk in wellington boots, partially because I spend so much of my life in them.
Because of the 'open' nature of wellingtons you get more air movement round your feet than you do with laced boots.
Also perhaps more importantly, stop for a brew and in twenty seconds you can have your feet out of the wellingtons and into a stream. I can be poisoning fish 100 yards downstream of me before other people even have their boots unlaced :-)
Jim
fair point Jim, thats another way of doing it....quick release boots ;D
I don't recommend it for others, but it's just that I'm so used to wellingtons that they work for me. Expensive snug fitting ones would probably be worse.
Also they're handy in this side of the country because things can get wet underfoot ;)
Jim
New Zealand farmers always were wellies at lest one size too big so they can step out of them when they get to the farmhouse / pub.
Its a mark of a townie to have to stop and take them off one by one
Winter wellies should be a size bigger than summer wellies as well 8)
Jim
Quote from: Mark G on May 23, 2014, 06:56:18 AM
New Zealand farmers always were wellies at lest one size too big so they can step out of them when they get to the farmhouse / pub.
Its a mark of a townie to have to stop and take them off one by one
Seems pretty universal - I was always brought up to have wellies one size too big to fit the thick socks in. Jim is a brave man to walk any distance in them though.
Re-enactor footwear has improved considerably since my day. Then it was a variety of shoes and boots - I remember people in Docs, cowbow boots and even steel-capped work boots. Very few people had period footwear.
Quote from: Erpingham on May 23, 2014, 08:45:44 AM
Quote from: Mark G on May 23, 2014, 06:56:18 AM
New Zealand farmers always were wellies at lest one size too big so they can step out of them when they get to the farmhouse / pub.
Its a mark of a townie to have to stop and take them off one by one
Seems pretty universal - I was always brought up to have wellies one size too big to fit the thick socks in. Jim is a brave man to walk any distance in them though.
Re-enactor footwear has improved considerably since my day. Then it was a variety of shoes and boots - I remember people in Docs, cowbow boots and even steel-capped work boots. Very few people had period footwear.
A very good point Anthony. My very first reenactment show involved me wearing "normal" suede leather shoes that to be fair didnt look too bad from a distance. After that I got a pair of handmade shoes from a guy called Kevin Garlick who
still makes period authentic shoes to this day!