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History => Ancient and Medieval History => Topic started by: Duncan Head on September 08, 2014, 04:12:43 PM

Title: "Shang or Zhou" sword found in river
Post by: Duncan Head on September 08, 2014, 04:12:43 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-29108764 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-29108764)
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sci/2014-09/06/c_133625745.htm (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sci/2014-09/06/c_133625745.htm)

Strictly I suppose a bronze weapon can't be "rusty", but I shall assume the original Chinese was a more general "corroded"  :) 

Jiangsu is outside the classical Yellow River heartland of the ancient Chinese dynasties, it's what would become Wu state in the Eastern Zhou period, so the "Shang or Zhou" date must be just chronological, not political; this would presumably be the weapon of a southern contemporary of Shang or Western Zhou warriors.
Title: Re: "Shang or Zhou" sword found in river
Post by: Andreas Johansson on September 08, 2014, 05:44:02 PM
At 26 cm, seems more like a dagger than a sword.
Title: Re: "Shang or Zhou" sword found in river
Post by: Patrick Waterson on September 08, 2014, 07:24:20 PM
Quote from: Duncan Head on September 08, 2014, 04:12:43 PM
Jiangsu is outside the classical Yellow River heartland of the ancient Chinese dynasties, it's what would become Wu state in the Eastern Zhou period, so the "Shang or Zhou" date must be just chronological, not political; this would presumably be the weapon of a southern contemporary of Shang or Western Zhou warriors.

"Lyu Zhiwei of the Gaoyou Cultural Relics Bureau says that while the sword appears to be of both decorative and practical use, its form suggests it was the status symbol of a civil official rather than a sword for fighting."

If he is correct and the dating accurate, this suggests either a civilised culture in future-Wu-land at the time of the late Shang/early Shou or a trade in weapons during that period.  Civil officials outside the classic Chinese heartland at this time would perhaps raise a number of questions about lost cultures - if this is indeed a 'status symbol of a civil official rather than a sword for fighting'.

Alternatively, one wonders if the item was taken from an unfortunate Shang official by a barbarian raider.
Title: Re: "Shang or Zhou" sword found in river
Post by: Duncan Head on September 08, 2014, 07:47:51 PM
Quote from: Andreas Johansson on September 08, 2014, 05:44:02 PM
At 26 cm, seems more like a dagger than a sword.
Both are jian, of course. Call it a dirk?

Quote from: Patrick Waterson... if this is indeed a 'status symbol of a civil official rather than a sword for fighting'.
Which view I take with a pinch of salt, pending any further info.