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History => Ancient and Medieval History => Topic started by: Duncan Head on March 31, 2020, 08:19:06 AM

Title: Alpine ice, atmospheric lead, and the murder of Thomas a Becket
Post by: Duncan Head on March 31, 2020, 08:19:06 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52095694

This is an unusual one!
Title: Re: Alpine ice, atmospheric lead, and the murder of Thomas a Becket
Post by: Imperial Dave on March 31, 2020, 08:58:45 AM
unusual but incredibly interesting Duncan. I had no idea previously that industrial trends could be detected and mapped for a relatively early period such at that
Title: Re: Alpine ice, atmospheric lead, and the murder of Thomas a Becket
Post by: Andreas Johansson on March 31, 2020, 09:35:08 AM
The dip in 1170 seems dubiously significant, given how much the (logarithmic!) curve bounces up and down afterwards.
Title: Re: Alpine ice, atmospheric lead, and the murder of Thomas a Becket
Post by: RichT on March 31, 2020, 09:52:33 AM
Yes - it seems an eye of faith is required to see much correlation between the red and blue lines, and the pipe rolls data already gives more detail than the ice. Still, interesting study.
Title: Re: Alpine ice, atmospheric lead, and the murder of Thomas a Becket
Post by: Erpingham on March 31, 2020, 10:17:17 AM
Its also not entirely new.  Lead in ice cores also shows up for the Romans IIRC.
Title: Re: Alpine ice, atmospheric lead, and the murder of Thomas a Becket
Post by: Chuck the Grey on April 01, 2020, 04:28:16 AM
Quote from: Erpingham on March 31, 2020, 10:17:17 AM
Its also not entirely new.  Lead in ice cores also shows up for the Romans IIRC.

Yes it does. I remember that at one time the notion that the use of lead pipes for plumbing resulted in a decrease in mental capacity in the Roman elite due to lead poisoning and this was a contributing factor in the fall of the Roman Empire. I never thought much of that theory. Not sure if it has any supporters now.
Title: Re: Alpine ice, atmospheric lead, and the murder of Thomas a Becket
Post by: Mark G on April 01, 2020, 08:00:00 AM
Where are the current best guesses on the fall of the empire, these days?

I remember one that there was a warming which allowed malaria to establish further north in the Italian swamps, and that was key.

Title: Re: Alpine ice, atmospheric lead, and the murder of Thomas a Becket
Post by: Erpingham on April 01, 2020, 08:36:49 AM
Quote from: Mark G on April 01, 2020, 08:00:00 AM
Where are the current best guesses on the fall of the empire, these days?

I remember one that there was a warming which allowed malaria to establish further north in the Italian swamps, and that was key.

Well, I suppose its a change from othismos :)