Vikings didn't use shield-walls

[Mick Hession]

Yet shield bosses and other ironwork does not entirely rust away.....

[Dangun]

...the idea that Viking shields were ill-fitted to shieldwall or indeed any form of defensive fighting.  Reading the paper indicates that this conclusion was reached because (inter alia) sword cuts easily damaged the rim of the shield.  Observing the construction of the reconstructed shield used, one notes the lack of any form of metal reinforcement around the rim.

Interesting point.
And I would add, that even accepting the evidence from reenactment: a) not being the best design for a shield wall; and b) not using shield walls, are completely different conclusions.

Is there a controversy about axes? It can't be about their existence, so is it about use?

Maybe not a controversy, but ideas about their relative prevalence seem to vary.

[Jim Webster]

Yet shield bosses and other ironwork does not entirely rust away.....

and even if they turn entirely to rust, the rust remains in place, even if only as a detectable residue

[Mark G]

If the shields themselves were effectively rows of plank braced side by side, then the grain of the wood is also a factor.

That is, chop on a short end with the grain will slit down the length.  Chop the side, and you get not far.

I saw a theory that this was behind the designs painted on, to disguise the grain more.

If I only tested leather rims aligned vertically, it's easy to splinter a shield.  Nit so much if you hit side wood (or iron).

[Patrick Waterson]

Considering the form fits function argument, Viking shields were of necessity multi-purpose.  They had to be large enough to shield the person in mass combat, light enough to carry in cross-country raiding, robust enough to survive open ocean journeys on the weather side of a ship and handy enough to use in individual combat.  That they were effective for one purpose does not mean they were not used for others.

If the shields themselves were effectively rows of plank braced side by side, then the grain of the wood is also a factor.

And for a circular shield this means the way it was held becomes important: grain left-to-right or grain up-and-down?

[Imperial Dave]

grain is important......yes!

Reenactors spend a lot of time and effort to get their shields looking nice and dont like them being split apart at the first go. I only ever saw a couple made from 'planks' and they were held using a central boss grip and planks more or less horizontal. I had a plywood shield covered in leather and reinforced with dog chews

[Erpingham]

And for a circular shield this means the way it was held becomes important: grain left-to-right or grain up-and-down?

Side to side (you can see it on the examples of preserved shields in the Thornews article).  The obvious reason is to stop it splitting. 

There's an interesting article here about construction and use of shields, with another set of shield tests (this is one of the ones the author of the recent research didn't like).  Most importantly, it considers descriptions from sagas of shield use and tries to reconstruct them.  Again though its about the single combat styles.  Incidentally, dave, it does have the axe-hooking technique because it is in a saga.

We can also remind ourselves of the recent thread on Viking shield finds from Britain and Man.  We have enough of these to know that, if burial shields are real and not funerary artefacts (which most people think they are) metal shield rims were rare.  Slightly more common were clips which  were spaced round the edge but mostly nothing, not even nails to hold a reinforced edge (which is why we think they were sewn).

On axes, we find enough of them to suggest they were fairly common but they don't dominate the accounts of weapon use so they can't have been universal.  Swords and spears seem the most common weapons, with occassional exotics like hewing spears and atgeirs .

[Imperial Dave]

thanks for the link!

I had forgotten to add that some reenactors used linen for their shields and yes the weight difference is considerable!

[Dangun]

We can also remind ourselves of the recent thread on Viking shield finds from Britain and Man.  We have enough of these to know that, if burial shields are real and not funerary artefacts (which most people think they are) metal shield rims were rare. 

Interesting. Is it true that most people believe that burial shields were faux burial-object shields?
I guess the same logic (sic) is not applied to burial swords?

[Erpingham]

We can also remind ourselves of the recent thread on Viking shield finds from Britain and Man.  We have enough of these to know that, if burial shields are real and not funerary artefacts (which most people think they are) metal shield rims were rare. 

Interesting. Is it true that most people believe that burial shields were faux burial-object shields?
I guess the same logic (sic) is not applied to burial swords?

No, sorry, bad grammar on my part.  I meant most people believe they are real.

[Dangun]

No, sorry, bad grammar on my part.  I meant most people believe they are real.

Phew! My sanity is restored.

Just scanning without doing any work, but a lot of the sagas quoted on that site are the later, less helpful, 13th century stuff.

[Erpingham]

Just scanning without doing any work, but a lot of the sagas quoted on that site are the later, less helpful, 13th century stuff.

Aren't nearly all sagas 13th century or later?

For something a little earlier, a picture of two shieldwalls from Cumbria. 

[Patrick Waterson]

Would it be fair to conclude that the weight of evidence suggests that the Viking shield was habitually used in shieldwalls, despite the observation that the shields seem to be designed with individual combat in mind?

Iron rims do indeed appear to be rare, which suggests either desirability and lack of general attainability or restriction to stronger warriors, or perhaps even both.

[Duncan Head]

Would it be fair to conclude that the weight of evidence suggests that the Viking shield was habitually used in shieldwalls, despite the observation that the shields seem to be designed with individual combat in mind?

Depends whether we and Rolf Warming are using the same definition of "shield-wall". The photo from the TV "Vikings" in the original Thornews article suggests that he may be arguing against a testudo-like stationary fort of overlapping shields, and not necessarily against close-order formations with shields touching.

[aligern]

What would be the conclusion on Celtic or early German shields. Both are very similar in construction to Viking shields , though of different shape, but pkank construction and central grip. These shields are habitually used in shieldwalls....overlapping and in testudo like constructions.