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History => Ancient and Medieval History => Topic started by: Duncan Head on April 18, 2019, 08:43:16 AM

Title: Romano-British rabbit found
Post by: Duncan Head on April 18, 2019, 08:43:16 AM
It is widely said that the rabbit was introduced to Britain only by the Normans, but apparently the first Roman-era rabbit-bone has been found at Fishbourne:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47963324

and https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/apr/18/ben-fur-romans-brought-rabbits-to-britain-experts-discover
Title: Re: Romano-British rabbit found
Post by: Patrick Waterson on April 18, 2019, 09:46:19 AM
The conclusion that it was a captive animal could well explain why the Normans did not find its descendants ready to hunt and so brought their own.

Nice find, though, Duncan.
Title: Re: Romano-British rabbit found
Post by: Swampster on April 18, 2019, 03:14:54 PM
I've certainly seen before the theory that the Romans introduced them, though I guess that this is more concrete proof. It is certainly possible that there were even some feral rabbits in Roman times but that they did not become widely established or even lasted long enough to produce thriving colonies leaving visible signs.

The Norman introduction (or re-introduction) did not rapidly create a wild population. This paper http://www.bahs.org.uk/AGHR/ARTICLES/36n1a1.pdf states that it was not until the 18th century that a widespread wild population existed.

I suppose it may be significant that cony and rabbit are both words from the continent, the Anglo-Saxons not needing to leave us a word for them.
Title: Re: Romano-British rabbit found
Post by: Tim on April 18, 2019, 07:12:16 PM
Are we sure that this Rabbit is ethnically Romano-British...?
Title: Re: Romano-British rabbit found
Post by: Martin Smith on April 18, 2019, 10:35:51 PM
Not an April the 21st joke? Very topical....😊
Title: Re: Romano-British rabbit found
Post by: Erpingham on April 19, 2019, 09:33:34 AM
Quote from: Swampster on April 18, 2019, 03:14:54 PM


I suppose it may be significant that cony and rabbit are both words from the continent, the Anglo-Saxons not needing to leave us a word for them.

Although this letter (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/apr/18/romans-in-britain-and-welsh-rabbits) claims Welsh had a word for rabbit. It is possible that the word does come from post-classical Latin. However, I think the writer may have missed the connection with the word coney from Anglo-Norman and we'd need to see some use of the word prior to the Norman conquest.
Title: Re: Romano-British rabbit found
Post by: Patrick Waterson on April 19, 2019, 10:12:29 AM
If the Welsh were familiar with the rabbit and the Anglo-Saxons were not, it does imply a Roman connection - unless of course the Welsh word was simply adapted from the Normans.

I wonder whether the humble rabbit was represented in texts relating to Roman times perserved in Welsh monasteries, and retained its designation and presence in Welsh through that route.  Conjectures, conjectures ...
Title: Re: Romano-British rabbit found
Post by: Swampster on April 22, 2019, 01:57:46 AM
Quote from: Erpingham on April 19, 2019, 09:33:34 AM
Quote from: Swampster on April 18, 2019, 03:14:54 PM


I suppose it may be significant that cony and rabbit are both words from the continent, the Anglo-Saxons not needing to leave us a word for them.

Although this letter (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/apr/18/romans-in-britain-and-welsh-rabbits) claims Welsh had a word for rabbit. It is possible that the word does come from post-classical Latin. However, I think the writer may have missed the connection with the word coney from Anglo-Norman and we'd need to see some use of the word prior to the Norman conquest.
This paper https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00437956.1977.11435857 does indeed think it is a loan word from ME. https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.81090/2015.81090.The-English-Element-In-Welsh_djvu.txt gives some examples of usage.