Second Battle of Mantineia (362 BC)

[Justin Swanton]

I'll be doing Second Mantinea with Optio. Reading the sources, has anyone picked up on the fact that the battle didn't take place at Mantinea at all, but west of Tegea at the base of the mountains near Tripoli? The initial cavalry fight between the Boeotian and Athenian cavalry took place at Mantinea, sure, but Epaminondas had camped with his main army at Tegea where they were resting after a forced march from Sparta.

Xenophon makes clear the battle took place west of Tegea: "but when his army had been drawn up as he wished it to be, he did not advance by the shortest route towards the enemy, but led the way towards the mountains which lie to the westward and over against Tegea, so that he gave the enemy the impression that he would not join battle on that day."

Diodorus does not state where the battle took place. Nor does Pausanias, who merely affirms that Epaminondas reached "Mantinea with his army." Well his cavalry did, and fought the initial engagement with the Athenians there, but not the main battle.

Nepos says he was "commander at Mantinea" but he is referring to the battle by its accepted name without specifically affirming its exact location.

Justin doesn't mention the location. Diogenes affirms the battle took place "about Mantinea", though it isn't clear if he is conflating the initial cavalry fight at Mantinea with the main battle that took place later. And "about" is pretty flexible. Plutarch likewise affirms the battle took place "near Mantinea", which, if the battle took place in the vicinity of Tripoli, puts it at 10km away, which I suppose does qualify as "near".

Frontinus doesn't mention where the battle took place whereas Polynaeus repeats Xenophon in that it took place "near Tegea" (assuming he is talking about Second Mantinea). "Near" in this case would be about 7km away.

Plutarch talks about the "battle of Mantinea" i.e. referring to it by its common name without explicitly affirming it took place at Mantinea.

Polybius seems to have a problem with the terrain at Mantinea though what exactly his problem is has been lost. One can speculate that the description of the battle doesn't suit the ground at Mantinea itself so one has to look elsewhere? His description of the fighting at Mantinea itself refers to the initial cavalry engagement, not the main battle.

Aischenes talks of the "battle of Mantinea", referring to its accepted name without specifically affirming its geographical location.

It seems in conclusion that the battle did not take place at Mantinea but was called the battle of Mantinea due to the importance of that town in the battle, since the Mantineans were the target of Epaminondas and were protected by the Athenians and Spartans.

[RichT]

Depends what is meant by 'at Mantineia'. The Greek practice (much like the modern one) was to name battles either after a geographical feature (Thermopylae, Cynoscephalae, Granicus), or after the territory of the city in which they were fought (Mantineia, Plataea, Leuctra etc etc). Where city territories were not well defined there might be some leeway (hence Gaugamela or Arbela, depending whether you take a smaller closer settlement or a bigger more distant one), but in Greece territorial boundaries were very well defined (Pausanias 8.11.1 "After the sanctuary of Poseidon you will come to a place full of oak trees, called Sea, and the road from Mantineia to Tegea leads through the oaks. The boundary between Mantineia and Tegea is the round altar on the highroad.") The ancient understanding was clearly that the battle was 'of' or 'at' Mantineia, so it must have been fought on Mantineian territory.

Exactly what Xenophon means by "towards the mountains which lie to the westward and over against Tegea" is open to debate, and the exact location (in common with the exact location of every battle in antiquity) is not known for certain; but the usual guess (the 'narrows' by modern Skopi, north of modern Tripoli (which didn't exist in those days) seems a good one. We also don't know for sure (AFAIK) where the Mantineia/Tegea boundary was - it might have been in these narrows too, in which case the battle might have been only just on Mantineian territory, or it might have been further south. If Epaminondas started in Tegea and marched north but trending west, towards the mountains at Skopi, that would fit Xenophon's description.

You cannot view this attachment.

[Justin Swanton]

IMHO that pushes "westward" too far. The narrow gap is due north from Tegea, not west. And they are hardly "over against" Tegea as they are more than 11km away. Sure the engagement is called the Battle of Mantinea but I submit that in this case Mantinea became the name because the fighting started there with the cavalry engagement and the battle itself was fought for the city - which wasn't all that far away. Where exactly is "Ocean" BTW?

I've posted more on this in the Battleday thread as that seems more appropriate.

[RichT]

OK, I'll reply in the Battle day thread.