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Old Saxon Standards

Started by David Kush, April 10, 2014, 02:10:41 AM

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Sharur

Further to Robert's posting about horses, although the pictorial evidence is late (Bayeux Tapestry), dragon banners, maybe even Roman-style draco standards, could be another possibility for the Saxons. There's some question, because of their often stylised nature, as to whether some creatures, particularly in the various northern-European serpentine interlace artforms, have horse or dragon heads, for instance.

Although there's a school of thought that would like to see the Saxons continuing to use dracos from Roman times onwards, as more probably happened in Britain for the native Britons (plausibly the original basis of the Welsh red dragon, for example), what evidence there is makes it perhaps more likely the Saxons adopted them after seeing the British standards. Depends how far you might want to stretch the point!

Henry of Huntingdon (writing in the 12th century) does mention Cuthred, King of the West Saxons in Britain, as using a golden dragon standard in 752, but unfortunately he's not the most reliable source for this period, so may have back-projected it from his own time. The standard isn't mentioned in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle reports that cover this battle at Burford, certainly, but they are extremely scant.

Erpingham

I think we should be careful transfering what the Anglo-Saxons did back to the continental Saxons.  While I believe the evidence does point to continuing contact, in England there were other  elements in play e.g. a different relationship to the Franks.

I think one might make a case for the dragon standard being derived from a relationship with Roman-ess (legitimate, civilised, Christian) rather than pagan background.  So Charlemagne used them, the kings of Wessex did and Holy Roman emperors did and it seems that they were used by the Spanish too.

Robert's point further reinforces what has already been said - a traditional association with horse symbols, which may have a ritual element.  Just the ticket if you want to use Rohirrim flags :)




Sharur

Good point about the transferrence of symbols and their variable importance to different peoples, Anthony.

Of course, the animal symbols Robert mentioned all have to be transferred from other peoples' usage as standards to the Continental Saxons as well, the problem really being that the Saxons (thoughtlessly!) left no written or illustrated works to provide evidence for their own preferences. Horses were important symbolically across quite a swathe of northwestern Europe, including Britain, from pre-Roman times after all (e.g. the numerous representations on Celtic coins, a symbolism traceable back as far as the Uffington White Horse in Oxfordshire, dated by optical stimulated luminescence in the late 1990s to c.1400-600 BC).

If we're looking for an important Continental Saxon symbol, perhaps the more unique one might be the irminsul, the apparently sacred pillar or tree trunk mentioned in the Royal Frankish Annals, though whether this would have been used as a military standard too is open to question. It's possible this pillar/tree symbolism may have led to the tall shaft crosses, or high crosses, of the Anglo-Saxon Christian period in Britain and Ireland, or played a role in their development from native standing stones (given they were commonly decorated with foliate artwork).

Not sure this all helps David's original query, but there have at least been plenty of "thoughts"  ;D