It's in the Black Sea and you read about it here (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45951132).
that is a tremendous find. Fantastic condition
And it confirms that merchant ships, at least as of the 4th century BC but presumably also some centuries earlier, given the vase details, used oars.
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on October 23, 2018, 08:36:08 PM
And it confirms that merchant ships, at least as of the 4th century BC but presumably also some centuries earlier, given the vase details, used oars.
Some merchant ships at least. Given the way this type is shown in vase paintings it would be interesting to see how many benches they counted on a real one.
From what I remember there should be a lot more, as the Black Sea has bizarre conditions, a deep layer without oxygen?
Quote from: Jim Webster on October 24, 2018, 10:16:57 AM
From what I remember there should be a lot more, as the Black Sea has bizarre conditions, a deep layer without oxygen?
Yes, the report I read says they found lots of stuff in the search area, including a 17th century Cossack fleet.
Cheers
Mick
The goddess, La Roberts, brightened all our mornings by telling us that the de oxygenated layer in the Black Sea would not support many of the organisms that cause the decay of sunken timbers. Unfortunately the timbers would apparently be too feeble for the ship to be brought to the surface ( it is a very long way down!).
Roy
The depth should keep it from the attentions of looters at least.
Quote from: Jim Webster on October 24, 2018, 10:16:57 AM
From what I remember there should be a lot more, as the Black Sea has bizarre conditions, a deep layer without oxygen?
Word of the day:
euxinic, adj, (of water) lacking oxygen and rich in sulfide.
From a Greek name of the Black Sea,
Pontos Euxeinos "Hospitable Sea".
Euxinic conditions are rare in the modern world, the Black Sea being the most notable example, but has been widespread in the oceans at some points in geology history.
No obvious reason why it sank either?
Rudder still in place.
Mast still erecting.
No obvious hull punctures.
And there looks to be an oar lying across the deck despite the boat having sunk for 2km.
Odd.
We can probably rule out icebergs.
Capsize is always most likely, especially with narrow ships. Down to some combo of strong wind, badly stowed cargo or sailing error.
Quote from: Dangun on October 24, 2018, 02:46:12 PM
No obvious reason why it sank either?
Rudder still in place.
Mast still erecting.
No obvious hull punctures.
And there looks to be an oar lying across the deck despite the boat having sunk for 2km.
Odd.
This should not come as any surprise. I mean, over two millennia later the Royal Navy came up with the K-Class submarines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_K-class_submarine). Of the 18 built, 6 sank - 1 of them spontaneously at its moorings in Portsmouth Harbour. ::)
It's an open boat. It could easily, as Rich said, have gone over if it had gone beam on to a heavy swell or just been swamped by heavy waves.
or overladen....
Quote from: NickHarbud on October 24, 2018, 05:10:07 PM
Quote from: Dangun on October 24, 2018, 02:46:12 PM
No obvious reason why it sank either?
Rudder still in place.
Mast still erecting.
No obvious hull punctures.
And there looks to be an oar lying across the deck despite the boat having sunk for 2km.
Odd.
relieved to say that the only Barrow built one of the K class sank because another submarine rammed it. That's hardly our fault! ::)
This should not come as any surprise. I mean, over two millennia later the Royal Navy came up with the K-Class submarines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_K-class_submarine). Of the 18 built, 6 sank - 1 of them spontaneously at its moorings in Portsmouth Harbour. ::)
Quote from: Jim Webster on October 24, 2018, 10:17:29 PM
relieved to say that the only Barrow built one of the K class sank because another submarine rammed it. That's hardly our fault! ::)
The K4, lost during the 'Battle of May Island' (night 31 Jan - 1 Feb 1918) after being sliced nearly in two by K6 and then hit by K7. However on a previous patrol off the Danish coast K4 had itself scored, managing to collide with K1, which was so damaged it had to be scuttled.
The K class, K 13 in particular, had an evil reputation among their crews, and I gather that it was an unofficial rule that nobody named David Jones was ever assigned to the class ...
Quote from: Dangun on October 24, 2018, 02:46:12 PM
No obvious reason why it sank either?
Rudder still in place.
Mast still erecting.
No obvious hull punctures.
And there looks to be an oar lying across the deck despite the boat having sunk for 2km.
Odd.
The visible side of the ship is intact; we have not yet seen the other side.
Image here (https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/oct/23/oldest-intact-shipwreck-thought-to-be-ancient-greek-discovered-at-bottom-of-black-sea#img-1).
The type of vessel it is deemed to resemble is shown here (https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/oct/23/oldest-intact-shipwreck-thought-to-be-ancient-greek-discovered-at-bottom-of-black-sea#img-2), and there are similarities, although to me it looks as if the Black Sea vessel is built to travel the other way, i.e. the built-up area is at the stern and the end with the antler-like excresences (not depicted in the Greek vase painting) is the bow. The excresences themselves are probably for a headsail; such a configuration would be typical of Ottoman vessels.
The apparent oar would thus be near the stern, in the right general position for a steering oar. At least this should mean the wreck is not Ottoman. Excatly what it might be is anyone's guess.
I think the stern is to the left of the picture - note the sweep up from the keel and the apparent steering oar still in position. The built up area is the remains of a raised bow structure as per the vase painting. The ram (or whatever said structure is) is buried in the mud.
I tend to agree with you Jim. The stern sweeps up into the classic fish tail shape of a Greek vessel. Hopefully more will be revealed in time
Quote from: Holly on October 25, 2018, 10:08:17 AM
I tend to agree with you Jim.
Or Anthony, as the case may be. :)
I am by no means certain either way. Yes, it does have what should be a stern sweep on the left of the picture, but it also has rather a lot of clutter at this putative stern, and I wonder what this might be. Hence the conjecture about it perhaps being the remains of a headsail arrangement. The alternative would presumably be an elaborate seating arrangement for the helmsman.
All will presumably be revealed in time.