It's very pretty... 8)
Helmet from Staffordshire Hoard (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-46291230)
It's intriguing that the Saxons created an elaborately faithful copy of late Roman equipment but never learned to speak Latin...
Quote from: Justin Swanton on November 23, 2018, 05:48:34 AM
It's intriguing that the Saxons created an elaborately faithful copy of late Roman equipment but never learned to speak Latin...
some probably did (after a fashion) but why would they want to?
Quote from: Justin Swanton on November 23, 2018, 05:48:34 AM
It's intriguing that the Saxons created an elaborately faithful copy of late Roman equipment but never learned to speak Latin...
Justin
Two things. Remember this is a reconstruction so it is possible that it has been influenced in some way towards that model. Also there are much later examples of Polish troops copying Ottoman weapons and dress style without learning to speak Arabic or Turkish.
Quote from: Tim on November 23, 2018, 07:33:45 AM
Quote from: Justin Swanton on November 23, 2018, 05:48:34 AM
It's intriguing that the Saxons created an elaborately faithful copy of late Roman equipment but never learned to speak Latin...
Justin
Two things. Remember this is a reconstruction so it is possible that it has been influenced in some way towards that model. Also there are much later examples of Polish troops copying Ottoman weapons and dress style without learning to speak Arabic or Turkish.
True, but all other barbarian invaders of the Empire ended up speaking a bastardized form of Latin except the Saxons. And the helmet, presuming it is a faithful reconstruction, shows they appreciated Roman culture at least in things military, but nontheless they were never Romanised or semi-romanised like the Franks, Ostrogoths, Lombards, Burgunds, etc.
A fair observation, methinks.
The Guardian piece has fewer photos but a bit more text:
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2018/nov/23/ornate-gold-helmet-from-staffordshire-hoard-recreated
QuoteAs the helmet was missing its frame and key decorative sections, parts of the replicas have relied on what Grieves called "an academically respectable guesstimate" of what the original probably looked like, based on comparisons with other Anglo-Saxon, Scandinavian and Roman examples.
The replica is notable for its striking crest of red horsehair, which differs dramatically from the dragon-like creature on the crest that tops the Sutton Hoo helmet, for example, which experts believe was made around the same time in a similar area of eastern England.
Grieves, who has worked on the hoard since 2013, said there was no direct evidence that crest was topped with horsehair – "feathers are another option" – but its open-style crest was unique among Anglo-Saxon examples and "gives it a Roman look". All the known Anglo-Saxon helmets were inspired by their Roman predecessors, she said, and each was unique. "They are not making lots of one design, they are making each one specially, for a special person."
Quote from: Justin Swanton on November 23, 2018, 08:09:32 AM
Quote from: Tim on November 23, 2018, 07:33:45 AM
Quote from: Justin Swanton on November 23, 2018, 05:48:34 AM
It's intriguing that the Saxons created an elaborately faithful copy of late Roman equipment but never learned to speak Latin...
Justin
Two things. Remember this is a reconstruction so it is possible that it has been influenced in some way towards that model. Also there are much later examples of Polish troops copying Ottoman weapons and dress style without learning to speak Arabic or Turkish.
True, but all other barbarian invaders of the Empire ended up speaking a bastardized form of Latin except the Saxons. And the helmet, presuming it is a faithful reconstruction, shows they appreciated Roman culture at least in things military, but nontheless they were never Romanised or semi-romanised like the Franks, Ostrogoths, Lombards, Burgunds, etc.
That could have much to do with the numbers involved and whether the people they conquered were habitually Latin speaking or a rural population who reserved Latin for dealing with officialdom
Saxons were settled in Gaul and in this case ended up speaking the bastardised form of latin, so it seems it's dependent on where you settle, not who you are
Quote from: Jim Webster on November 23, 2018, 08:51:35 AM
Saxons were settled in Gaul and in this case ended up speaking the bastardised form of latin, so it seems it's dependent on where you settle, not who you are
Good observation. Saxons in England would have no reason to communicate in Latin with anyone (no foederati associations, no alliances with pseudo-emperors or contacts with real ones, no adoption of law codes) so would have bypassed the whole Latin thing in favour of developing Anglo-Saxon English.