Millet-eating urban Scythians not as mobile as you might think

[Duncan Head]

https://www.shh.mpg.de/1968873/miller-scythian-people

Original study at https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0245996

[Swampster]

Perhaps the writers had a preconception about how far nomads typically travel?
A quick bit of research says modern Tibetan nomads travel 10 - 40 miles per year and Mongols 15-20 km to reach seasonal camps (in areas with decent rainfall - much further in desert). The Mongols move around 6 to 8 times a year but go to the same sites in a cycle. That would suggest a rough circle, so the radius would still be only about 15 -20 km from the central point. The shape would get stretched if sites are along a river, but each move would typically be a shorter distance.

Pastoralists in arid areas can move substantially larger distances, but with the fertility of the Ukraine I suspect the movement needs to be relatively short, being only to prevent overgrazing rather than to find relatively rare areas of good grazing. By the standards of the examples above, the article's 90km from the burial point is a pretty reasonable distance.

The build-up of isotopes also wouldn't show short duration forays further afield such as for horse rustling or even a few months of all-out warfare.

[DBS]

Barry Cunliffe does not like the use of the term "nomads" for the Scythians precisely because of this, preferring "pastoralists" - and even then noting that the level of mobility probably dropped significantly when they found somewhere nice.  In particular he highlights the Pontic steppes as a region where the Scythians put down firm roots; Bilsk is hardly compatible with true nomadism, regardless of whether or not you think it is Herodotos' Gelonos, and those pesky Greeks probably corrupted the free-spirited horsemen into decadent and comfortable sedentary habits in that area as well. 

[Jim Webster]

Your migration would be limited because it had to fit in with everybody else's migration. "It might look like featureless grass plain to you bucko but that bit is our clans, and we run to the top of that low crest. Tother side is Broken reed clan and they follow down to those three rocks you can just see and beyond that is Three Spears. "

[DBS]

Your migration would be limited because it had to fit in with everybody else's migration. "It might look like featureless grass plain to you bucko but that bit is our clans, and we run to the top of that low crest. Tother side is Broken reed clan and they follow down to those three rocks you can just see and beyond that is Three Spears. "

Pontic steppe, or Cumbria?

[Jim Webster]

Your migration would be limited because it had to fit in with everybody else's migration. "It might look like featureless grass plain to you bucko but that bit is our clans, and we run to the top of that low crest. Tother side is Broken reed clan and they follow down to those three rocks you can just see and beyond that is Three Spears. "

Pontic steppe, or Cumbria?

Pretty much everywhere 
Families and clans would know their grazing, and boundaries would be known. Even on the open fell of Cumbria or the Pennines those who farm there know where the boundaries are, and the sheep are hefted within them

[Anton]

Your migration would be limited because it had to fit in with everybody else's migration. "It might look like featureless grass plain to you bucko but that bit is our clans, and we run to the top of that low crest. Tother side is Broken reed clan and they follow down to those three rocks you can just see and beyond that is Three Spears. "

Yeah, the key point Jim.  Everything belonged to someone and if you transgressed expect to fight.  Migration tended to be in set patterns to maximise the grazing.

[Jim Webster]

Your migration would be limited because it had to fit in with everybody else's migration. "It might look like featureless grass plain to you bucko but that bit is our clans, and we run to the top of that low crest. Tother side is Broken reed clan and they follow down to those three rocks you can just see and beyond that is Three Spears. "

Yeah, the key point Jim.  Everything belonged to someone and if you transgressed expect to fight.  Migration tended to be in set patterns to maximise the grazing.

Grassland management is an art 

Depending on the season, the number of livestock etc, would depend how you moved and whether you could stay longer in an area.
I do wonder if whilst there was a annual rotation, whether when you get to the next 'stopping point' there would be a rotation around there as well, to maximise grazing before the next move

[DBS]

Depending on the season, the number of livestock etc, would depend how you moved and whether you could stay longer in an area.
I do wonder if whilst there was a annual rotation, whether when you get to the next 'stopping point' there would be a rotation around there as well, to maximise grazing before the next move

Modern commentators often remark on the effectiveness of the politico-military leadership of pastoralist chiefs, as if they are transgressing the assumptions about "primitive social progression".  I think your observation nails it.  If there is a dispute in an agricultural village, it might result in fisticuffs, mead having been taken, or mammoth sulks and partial ostracism, but in most cases, everyone still has their field, and no one starves to death.  Pastoralists, however, arguably need a more robust and respected means of arbitration unless every argument over who gets to pasture where is to be settled by composite bows at fifty paces.  Not saying that the latter did not happen frequently, after all it is the entire basis, on a macro level, of the Chinese narratives on the Xiongnu and Yuezhi, etc.  But within a clan or tribe, where the family units are probably small and dispersed but liable to run into each other at the same nice bits of real estate in the steppes or alpine pastures, the ability of a big lad to knock heads together, and ensure some compromise, cooperation and rough equity becomes something of a premium.

Having done that, he can then say, "Hey, once you've watered the goats, what say we go and knock off Bactria?  Those Greeks have got it coming to them."

[Jim Webster]

Having done that, he can then say, "Hey, once you've watered the goats, what say we go and knock off Bactria?  Those Greeks have got it coming to them."

I think you've got to see the Bactrian trip more as agricultural diversification. It's not good land, you're just about scraping by. So you've got to have an alternative source of income. So some farmers will do farm teas, some will have a few caravans, a pumpkin patch, or clay pigeon shooting.
And others will knock of Bactria or pay a visit to Lindisfarne with a few similarly minded mates