For the discerning post-Parthian Persian player.
There is an interesting 6th-7th century Sasanian textile fragment here (http://www.metmuseum.org/exhibitions/listings/2012/byzantium-and-islam/blog/topical-essays/posts/sasanians) (first illustration). I would be interested to hear what our Sasanophiles make of it.
The central mounted figure may be a king, and must at least be someone of importance - judging simply from his relative size.
The smaller chap at left is holding a sort of sunburst device positioned over a pair of wings, which reminds me of one of the Sasanian standards in the Shah's Persepolis parade - second infantry figure (http://iranpoliticsclub.net/photos/U11-Sassanian1/index.htm) - though it's probably not close enough to be the actual inspiration for that figure.
The even smaller chap at right has a bow, and may be an infantry archer.
Thoughts?
Another interesting piece of late-ish Sasanian artwork is in this pdf (http://www.metmuseum.org/pubs/bulletins/1/pdf/3256763.pdf.bannered.pdf) - the King as a mailed horse-archer, a rare piece of matching evidence for Maurikios' description of armoured cavalry armed only with bow.
By no means a Sasanophile, I found the image interesting. I'm not sure of the composition though. The king figure appears from his pose to be riding. If so, the standard bearer appears to be standing on the back of the animal. There is a similar two man crew on a camel in one of the other illustrations, but I can't see how you would fit a camels head in the gap in the composition. Could they be on an elephant? In which case, what is the small archer figure at the front doing? Could the standard be a sunshade (which could potentially have a similar symbolic function)?
First guess would be a hunting scene. Large image of king riding. Standard bearer smaller scale and the archer, almost certainly a mounted noble and probably one of several in the complete picture.
Irritatingly the second textile failed to load, dumping me into the Met's 'cant find it' page.
Tom..
That's annoying - I tested it several times. I hate pdf links :-(
Try this (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.metmuseum.org%2Fpubs%2Fbulletins%2F1%2Fpdf%2F3256763.pdf.bannered.pdf&ei=TwrZUvnaDYia7Qa4toDgDw&usg=AFQjCNGQD_GDHnHqkeXEi3MjaivAzPKLBQ) - it works for me on the preview, anyway
Doubtless Tom is right about the original textile, though the composition is odd. It is not clear where the horse ends and the ground on which the standard bearer stands begins. Also, presumably, we have a head down horse.
On the second image I was reminded by of an image from my youth - an image of "Chosroes II" in Saxtorph's Warriors and Weapons of Early Times (no.180). This must have come from a vey similar original.
Thanks Duncan I can see the PDF, and recognise it! Some years ago I saw this at the Met (in a special exhibition I think) and was rude enough to ask the assistant curator why it was a reversed image (or I suppose a left handed prince). He was not amused...
Tom..
I'd assumed one of a symmetrical pair, but on reflection I don't know if the Sasanians go in for that sort of thing.
Umm fair assumption, some of it was http://depts.washington.edu/silkroad/exhibit/sassanians/images/67.jpg (I had to go check...).
He's got a little round hat, a little round hat!
Roy
Rounded in profile, but perhaps not globular! Maybe "helmet-shaped".
There's an interesting 2016 article on a Sasanian helmet at http://cejsh.icm.edu.pl/cejsh/element/bwmeta1.element.desklight-fc5c0486-48ed-403d-9571-ab48d4dd3268/c/Kubik_1409.pdf. Quite wide-ranging in the parallels and comparisons considered.
Quote from: Duncan Head on January 30, 2017, 02:19:54 PM
There's an interesting 2016 article on a Sasanian helmet at http://cejsh.icm.edu.pl/cejsh/element/bwmeta1.element.desklight-fc5c0486-48ed-403d-9571-ab48d4dd3268/c/Kubik_1409.pdf. Quite wide-ranging in the parallels and comparisons considered.
Thanks Duncan, I hadn't seen that one before. Somewhat reminiscent of the spikier 'chaos' helmets beloved of some fantasy manufacturers...
Quote from: DougM on February 01, 2017, 09:30:10 AM
Thanks Duncan, I hadn't seen that one before. Somewhat reminiscent of the spikier 'chaos' helmets beloved of some fantasy manufacturers...
I think my next HOTT army shall be Chaos Sassanids.
Quote from: Andreas Johansson on February 01, 2017, 09:35:42 AM
Quote from: DougM on February 01, 2017, 09:30:10 AM
Thanks Duncan, I hadn't seen that one before. Somewhat reminiscent of the spikier 'chaos' helmets beloved of some fantasy manufacturers...
I think my next HOTT army shall be Chaos Sassanids.
Maybe take inspiration from the Persians in '300'. :-)
Is it normal to draw the bow across the horse like that?
Without having ever fired a bow from a moving horse... I would imagine one would draw parallel to the horse to reduce the risk of fouling the lower limb.
Quite normal, i have footage of the wife's cousin galloping and shooting cross the horse.
Quote from: Dangun on February 01, 2017, 01:10:10 PM
Is it normal to draw the bow across the horse like that?
Without having ever fired a bow from a moving horse... I would imagine one would draw parallel to the horse to reduce the risk of fouling the lower limb.
Not sure what you mean - which illustration are you looking at?
Quote from: Duncan Head on February 01, 2017, 02:01:52 PM
Not sure what you mean - which illustration are you looking at?
Is it this one (http://www.metmuseum.org/pubs/bulletins/1/pdf/3256763.pdf.bannered.pdf), Nicholas?
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on February 01, 2017, 08:46:31 PM
Quote from: Duncan Head on February 01, 2017, 02:01:52 PM
Not sure what you mean - which illustration are you looking at?
Is it this one (http://www.metmuseum.org/pubs/bulletins/1/pdf/3256763.pdf.bannered.pdf), Nicholas?
My apologies for being vague.
Patrick, you are right, that is the one I meant.
OK, I thought it might be that one, but I wasn't sure.
I'm not sure whether he is "draw(ing) the bow across the horse" at all, but the even odder thing is that he appears to be drawing the bow with the string behind his head. Certainly the relief is a bit anatomically strange, unless what we are seeing is actually meant to be the back of the rider's torso, not his chest. In that case, everything's perfectly correct for an archer aiming at a target somewhere off to his right.
Quote from: Duncan Head on February 02, 2017, 09:02:23 AM
I'm not sure whether he is "draw(ing) the bow across the horse" at all, but the even odder thing is that he appears to be drawing the bow with the string behind his head.
That is an interesting idea. I had assumed that we were looking at the rider's chest. Maybe we are looking at the rider's back?
If we are looking at his chest, then he has drawn his left hand back to his left shoulder - on the left side of the horse - and is holding the bow in his right hand - on the right side of the horse - hence drawing across.
If we are looking at his back, then he has drawn his right hand back to his right shoulder and the bow is drawn parallel to the horse.
Assuming for the moment that we are viewing the front of the torso, and he has the bow in his right hand - why are you surprised that he is "drawing across the horse"? How else would you shoot a bow at a target to that side of you? For example, this Timurid drawing (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/IlkhanidHorseArcher.jpg).
Quote from: Duncan Head on February 02, 2017, 01:24:38 PM
Assuming for the moment that we are viewing the front of the torso, and he has the bow in his right hand - why are you surprised that he is "drawing across the horse"? How else would you shoot a bow at a target to that side of you? For example, this Timurid drawing (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/IlkhanidHorseArcher.jpg).
Surprise is probably a little strong. My question was merely: "Is it normal to draw the bow across the horse like that?"
It may be completely normal, but it just struck me that there is not a lot of space between the archer, the horses head, and the horse's back in which to safety draw back the lower limb of the bow.
So I asked the question.
There will of course be situations where you don't have a choice - and quite a lot of situations if you are a left-handed archer (which this guy is, if we are looking at his chest) in a predominantly right-handed formation.
Anyone able to summarise the evidence for what type of horse armour (if any) was used by Sassanid cavalry - and/or point at when this was last discussed in Slingshot (so I can go look it up).
I have been reading Tom Holland's 'In the shadow of the sword' and the temptation to paint some Sassanids is rising...
Thanks in advance, Gavin
"Sasanian Horse Armor", by Patryk Skupniewicz (http://cejsh.icm.edu.pl/cejsh/element/bwmeta1.element.desklight-341575d6-281e-47a9-a3a5-67536a3c7a64/c/his_3_Skupniewicz.pdf)
Quote from: Duncan Head on September 18, 2018, 09:05:35 AM
"Sasanian Horse Armor", by Patryk Skupniewicz (http://cejsh.icm.edu.pl/cejsh/element/bwmeta1.element.desklight-341575d6-281e-47a9-a3a5-67536a3c7a64/c/his_3_Skupniewicz.pdf)
Yep. What he said. Though I am still to be convinced of the apron style as being widespread, and not perhaps Avar influenced via Byzantine practices.
My own view is that the earlier period would still have numbers of Parthian style cataphracts from the great Parthian houses, while Iranian cavalry would have some riders with more complete horse coverings in a variety of materials (leather and felt, sometimes fabric covered). Later styles would see the evolution of cataphract styles, (possibly including multi-part heavy armouring as per one interpretation of the Wixstam seal) and more sophisticated coverings for other cavalry including partial metallic armour (sometimes in fabric housings) together with more complete trappers in lighter materials.
Quote from: Duncan Head on September 18, 2018, 09:05:35 AM
"Sasanian Horse Armor", by Patryk Skupniewicz (http://cejsh.icm.edu.pl/cejsh/element/bwmeta1.element.desklight-341575d6-281e-47a9-a3a5-67536a3c7a64/c/his_3_Skupniewicz.pdf)
I liked the article.
But at least one of the images in the appendix are mislabelled as "Chinese," when the tombs they were taken form were of either Xianbei or Koguryo personages buried in what was not Chinese territory.
Thank you Duncan, Doug and Nicholas - article duly downloaded.
Next question - any one have any idea what the King of Kings "elevated golden throne" (DBMM army list notes) would have looked like?
Thanks in advance.