Sea level changes destroyed societies 2000 years ago

[Imperial Dave]

https://www.sciencealert.com/archaeologists-found-2000-year-old-lesson-on-sea-level-changes-destroying-societies

Fascinating stuff

[Nick Harbud]

Interesting.  The article blames this sea level fall and subsequent societal disruption on climate change that occurred approximately 2,500 years ago.  Presumably nothing to do with burning fossil fuels?

On a similar line, has anyone found a good explanation for the oak capricorn beetles?

And before anyone starts foaming at the mouth...

• Yes, today the world is getting warmer.
• Burning all those fossil fuels probably has something to do with it.

[Andreas Johansson]

Interesting.  The article blames this sea level fall and subsequent societal disruption on climate change that occurred approximately 2,500 years ago.  Presumably nothing to do with burning fossil fuels?

I guess the standarded explanations would be Milanković cycles and/or deforestation. But the article didn't inspire enough confidence for me to try and dig into the question.

[Jim Webster]

We manage to have ice ages, indeed we're technically overdue one. So I assume that sea level rise and fall can be impacted by these as well.

[Imperial Dave]

Interesting.  The article blames this sea level fall and subsequent societal disruption on climate change that occurred approximately 2,500 years ago.  Presumably nothing to do with burning fossil fuels?

On a similar line, has anyone found a good explanation for the oak capricorn beetles?

And before anyone starts foaming at the mouth...

• Yes, today the world is getting warmer.
• Burning all those fossil fuels probably has something to do with it.

I may be persuaded to foam at the mouth later

[Ian61]

Sometimes the sea isn't going up and down but the land is!

[Keraunos]

My gripe with the article is nothing to do with climate change - there is no doubt either that climate has changed in the past for a variety of reasons or that it is changing now due to human beings unlocking all the carbon that plants carefully sequestered during the carboniferous era, happily helping to create conditions in which humans would eventually be able to develop.  My gripe is the assumption that the societies affected by changes to sea level and vegetation in Brazil were destroyed.  Would they not have adapted?  This was not a sudden change.  Societies would have had time to respond to the changing conditions.  I began my life as an archaeologist for the Hertford Museum, excavating a late Roman farming settlement on a hill outside Hertford.  The Roman were ploughing a huge amount of effort into combating the effects of climate change as the weather became colder and wetter in this period.  They built corn driers to rescue harvests, cutting down vast acreages of woodland to fuel them.  They were trying to preserve the status quo rather than adapt to new conditions.  They failed.  The higher levels of the site contained Saxon grubenhauses, much more 'primitive' seeming structures, but perfectly adapted for the difficult conditions people then faced.

[Imperial Dave]

As a species we are highly adaptable agreed. The outcome of climate change for ancient communities would normally be adapt or move.

[Jim Webster]

My gripe with the article is nothing to do with climate change - there is no doubt either that climate has changed in the past for a variety of reasons or that it is changing now due to human beings unlocking all the carbon that plants carefully sequestered during the carboniferous era, happily helping to create conditions in which humans would eventually be able to develop.  My gripe is the assumption that the societies affected by changes to sea level and vegetation in Brazil were destroyed.  Would they not have adapted?  This was not a sudden change.  Societies would have had time to respond to the changing conditions.  I began my life as an archaeologist for the Hertford Museum, excavating a late Roman farming settlement on a hill outside Hertford.  The Roman were ploughing a huge amount of effort into combating the effects of climate change as the weather became colder and wetter in this period.  They built corn driers to rescue harvests, cutting down vast acreages of woodland to fuel them.  They were trying to preserve the status quo rather than adapt to new conditions.  They failed.  The higher levels of the site contained Saxon grubenhauses, much more 'primitive' seeming structures, but perfectly adapted for the difficult conditions people then faced.

Just to agree entirely with you. In north Cumbria there are farms from the Roman period which were growing grain at a higher altitude than we would bother now. The reasons, the climate was better and there was a large grain eating market along Hadrian's wall right on their doorstep (OK two days north by ox wagon)

[Nick Harbud]

Sometimes the sea isn't going up and down but the land is!

Good point!  Geologists can tell you all about the Dunkirk II marine transgression.  Starting around 230 AD, the land shifted, causing the sea level to rise by around 4 metres in the lower reaches of the Maas and Rhine.  Over the next 50 years, this caused the almost complete depopulation of the Roman Netherlands provinces. 

[Imperial Dave]

Which feeds nicely into the dark age migration period...

[Nick Harbud]

Just to agree entirely with you. In north Cumbria there are farms from the Roman period which were growing grain at a higher altitude than we would bother now. The reasons, the climate was better and there was a large grain eating market along Hadrian's wall right on their doorstep (OK two days north by ox wagon)

And, as we all know, during the Middle Ages, monks at various Yorkshire abbeys produced wine worthy of mention in the contemporary records.  As our climate warms, I look forward to sampling the products of Château Webster.

[Erpingham]

And, as we all know, during the Middle Ages, monks at various Yorkshire abbeys produced wine worthy of mention in the contemporary records. 

There are currently several vineyards in Yorkshire.  I toured one in Nun Monkton, north of York, in the spring.

[Ian61]

Interestingly I have just read a book 'The Lost Islands of Somerset, by Richard Brunning (2013, ISBN 978-0-9957251-1-9). Much of the Somerset levels were reclaimed by the Romans/Romano British in the centuries after the conquest reaching their largest extent somewhere around 250/280 CE only for all to be lost in the next hundred years or so until reclaimed again in the middle ages peaking only around the beginning of the 19th century. Despite more recent work to prevent flooding I suspect we will lose a lot  again over the next century.

[Imperial Dave]

Very interesting Ian thanks. It doesn't surprise me