SoA Forums

History => Ancient and Medieval History => Topic started by: Duncan Head on November 07, 2013, 06:19:05 PM

Title: Italian 14th-century paintings
Post by: Duncan Head on November 07, 2013, 06:19:05 PM
There's a member at http://theminiaturespage.com/ (http://theminiaturespage.com/) called Druzhina who posts a lot of pictures of mostly medieval soldiers. He's just put up a set of exceptionally nice photos of the military wall-paintings from the Castle of Sabbionara at Avio in the Trentino, c.1340 - see http://warfare2.netai.net/Medieval/Avio.htm  (http://warfare2.netai.net/Medieval/Avio.htm) or have a look at http://warfare.co.nf/index.htm (http://warfare.co.nf/index.htm) for his main index.

I've seen some of these pictures before, notably in some of David Nicolle's Ospreys, but this is the first time I've seen a collection like this together. They are especially interesting because there are so many figures of ordinary Italian infantry, not just the knights who dominate so much mediaeval art. The quilted armour and the designs on the pavises are especially interesting.
Title: Re: Italian 14th-century paintings
Post by: Erpingham on November 07, 2013, 06:40:13 PM
Like you, I've seen several of these before (David Nicolle is very fond of them) but not in colour or as much detail.  There are also some I've not seen - the cavalry battle with the Emperor, for example.

Interesting to see that spears at this point are still frequently used overarm and the use of the basilard dagger.

Excellent find, thanks.

Title: Re: Italian 14th-century paintings
Post by: Swampster on November 10, 2013, 09:47:28 AM
I suspect that the scene with the Emperor at least is to commemorate Heinrich VII's Romfahrt - one of the Castelbarcos took part in it and was given control of another castle.
The Nicolle caption which Druzhina quotes says that there was often conflict with the Guelph Bishops of Trent.  Were they really Guelphs in the 14th century. The little I can find suggests they were in the Emperors' pocket but I can only find vague references.
Title: Re: Italian 14th-century paintings
Post by: Patrick Waterson on November 10, 2013, 03:28:56 PM
Quote from: Swampster on November 10, 2013, 09:47:28 AM
I suspect that the scene with the Emperor at least is to commemorate Heinrich VII's Romfahrt

Journey to Rome, for the uninitiated.  ;)

Quote
Were they really Guelphs in the 14th century. The little I can find suggests they were in the Emperors' pocket but I can only find vague references.

Apparently yes: the Wikipedia article (http://uk.ask.com/wiki/Henry_VII,_Holy_Roman_Emperor) on Henry VII is quite informative.
Title: Re: Italian 14th-century paintings
Post by: Swampster on November 10, 2013, 05:02:29 PM
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on November 10, 2013, 03:28:56 PM
Quote from: Swampster on November 10, 2013, 09:47:28 AM
Quote
Were they really Guelphs in the 14th century. The little I can find suggests they were in the Emperors' pocket but I can only find vague references.

Apparently yes: the Wikipedia article (http://uk.ask.com/wiki/Henry_VII,_Holy_Roman_Emperor) on Henry VII is quite informative.

I can't find a reference to the bish of Trent in that.
I have, though, found a reference in a book about Giangaleazzo Visconti which mentions the Guelphs and Ghibellines in the Trentino. Sounds like the Bishops courted the Guelphs and Ghibellines at differnet times. At the time with which the book deals, the Duke of Austria and the B of Trent impeded Wenceslas's policies in Italy such as the sending od aid to the Scaligeri in Verona.
Title: Re: Italian 14th-century paintings
Post by: Patrick Waterson on November 10, 2013, 07:04:35 PM
Excellent.

Henry VII (Holy Roman Henry) did not get far into the 14th century, dying in August 1313.  Later Guelfing and Ghibellining started to be overshadowed by developments like the Black Death and the Treaty of Bretigny, but soldiered on one way or another (usually as city faction politics) until 1494, when Charles VIII of France repolarised Italy along notionally pro-French and anti-French lines.

The Wikipedia (or Ask Jeeves wikiderivative) article (http://uk.ask.com/wiki/Guelf_and_Ghibelline?qsrc=3044) on Guelphs and Ghibellines sketches out the situation, albeit without any great wealth of detail.