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History => Ancient and Medieval History => Topic started by: Imperial Dave on January 24, 2015, 12:25:29 PM

Title: Post traumatic stress in Mesopotamia
Post by: Imperial Dave on January 24, 2015, 12:25:29 PM
Hardly surprising but nonetheless fascinating 'evidence' of PTSD in ancient Mesopotamia

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-30957719
Title: Re: Post traumatic stress in Mesopotamia
Post by: Sharur on January 24, 2015, 02:24:07 PM
The full paper is available as a free PDF download from this direct link (http://www.nepft.nhs.uk/_uploads/documents/esm_019_06_549-557_abdul-hamid_hughes_off.pdf).

The earliest surviving records of mental health treatments from ancient Mesopotamia date to the second millennium BC, most of which seemed to involve religious-magical practices on the part of the healer, though when the more magical elements are removed, the difference to some modern "talking therapies" actually isn't that great.

There's a useful summary article from 2005 by Robert Biggs of the Oriental Institute of Chicago, Medicine, Surgery, and Public Health in Ancient Mesopotamia here (http://www.jaas.org/edocs/v19n1/Biggs-Medicine,%20surgery.pdf) (direct-link free PDF download), taken from the 1995 original in Civilizations of the Ancient Near East (ed. Jack M. Sasson, Charles Scribner's Sons), which has a couple of comments on mental health treatments, and some references.
Title: Re: Post traumatic stress in Mesopotamia
Post by: Imperial Dave on January 24, 2015, 02:52:50 PM
thanks Alastair, very interesting (full) article on 'ancient' PTSD. The Mesopotamians differentiated between 'ghost' and 'non-ghost' ailments
Title: Re: Post traumatic stress in Mesopotamia
Post by: Chuck the Grey on January 24, 2015, 06:20:32 PM
Interestingly, my wife and I were listening to the BBC news story on PTSD in ancient Mesopotamia last night while we were driving around. Fortunately, we receive BBC radio and television broadcasts through our local public radio and TV stations. Lets us keep up with goings-on in the "civilized" world. ;)

Thanks Alastair for the links to the two papers. I've downloaded both in saved to my ancient history file folder.
Title: Re: Post traumatic stress in Mesopotamia
Post by: Prufrock on January 25, 2015, 10:53:59 AM
Very interesting. Great find Dave - and thanks for the direct link to the article, Alastair.
Title: Re: Post traumatic stress in Mesopotamia
Post by: Patrick Waterson on January 25, 2015, 11:38:08 AM
Assyrians were also habitual participants in mass atrocities against prisoners and freshly-conquered (or recently rebellious) populations.  One wonders if this also left a mark on the psyche.
Title: Re: Post traumatic stress in Mesopotamia
Post by: Justin Swanton on January 25, 2015, 11:45:01 AM
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on January 25, 2015, 11:38:08 AM
Assyrians were also habitual participants in mass atrocities against prisoners and freshly-conquered (or recently rebellious) populations.  One wonders if this also left a mark on the psyche.

That would probably depend on whether they were brought up to be callous about killing people. My impression is that only refined westerners who get shocked by things like verbal school bullying become candidates for mental disorders after having done a tour of active duty.
Title: Re: Post traumatic stress in Mesopotamia
Post by: Prufrock on January 25, 2015, 01:27:22 PM
Quote from: Justin Swanton on January 25, 2015, 11:45:01 AM
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on January 25, 2015, 11:38:08 AM
Assyrians were also habitual participants in mass atrocities against prisoners and freshly-conquered (or recently rebellious) populations.  One wonders if this also left a mark on the psyche.

That would probably depend on whether they were brought up to be callous about killing people. My impression is that only refined westerners who get shocked by things like verbal school bullying become candidates for mental disorders after having done a tour of active duty.

There are some pretty tough men that suffer from PTSD.
Title: Re: Post traumatic stress in Mesopotamia
Post by: Swampster on January 25, 2015, 05:54:03 PM
Quote from: Prufrock on January 25, 2015, 01:27:22 PM
Quote from: Justin Swanton on January 25, 2015, 11:45:01 AM
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on January 25, 2015, 11:38:08 AM
Assyrians were also habitual participants in mass atrocities against prisoners and freshly-conquered (or recently rebellious) populations.  One wonders if this also left a mark on the psyche.

That would probably depend on whether they were brought up to be callous about killing people. My impression is that only refined westerners who get shocked by things like verbal school bullying become candidates for mental disorders after having done a tour of active duty.

There are some pretty tough men that suffer from PTSD.

Marshal Ney has been suggested as one.
Title: Re: Post traumatic stress in Mesopotamia
Post by: Patrick Waterson on January 25, 2015, 10:14:33 PM
Regarding our supposed Greek example of PTSD (at Marathon, 490 BC):

QuoteThe following marvel happened there: an Athenian, Epizelus son of Couphagoras, was fighting as a brave man in the battle when he was deprived of his sight, though struck or hit nowhere on his body, and from that time on he spent the rest of his life in blindness.

I have heard that he tells this story about his misfortune: he saw opposing him a tall armed man, whose beard overshadowed his shield, but the phantom [phasma] passed him by and killed the man next to him. I learned by inquiry that this is the story Epizelus tells.

How is this post-traumatic stress?  It happened in the middle of a battle.

Having read through the paper, I wonder if the authors are not reading too much into the normal Sumero-Assyro-Babylonian understanding of disease and illness generally.  Essentially, any form of illness or disease was caused by a spirit.  Drive out the spirit and you get rid of the disease or illness.  This is true whether the illness is physical or mental.  Rather than being plagued by PTSD 'ghosts', the post-combat problems would have been ascribed to earthbound spirits along the lines of voodoo 'duppies', recently discarnate entities seeking to possess a host.  There were magical formulae combined with ingestion and/or application of certain substances which would infallibly (if properly done) drive out the spirit and get rid of the problem.  Once could entice the spirit out by dangling substances it liked, or one could apply substances it disliked in the hope that it would give up residence as a bad job, or one could 'brute force' it out with potent charms and incantations.  Or all three.  Collateral damage to the patient was generally considered an acceptable risk.

Assyrian armies, at least in their 8th-7th century heyday, were generally victorious and campaigns did not subject them to the continuous grinding stress and schizophrenic cultural discontinuity that produces modern PTSD.

Title: Re: Post traumatic stress in Mesopotamia
Post by: Sharur on January 26, 2015, 03:10:12 PM
There seem to be a few misconceptions as to what causes PTSD in the comments here. Although often attributed to protracted military combat situations in the popular media, PTSD can actually occur from a wide variety of sources, sometimes thanks to triggers so apparently slight that an outsider might consider the cause trivial. A huge amount depends on the affected individual's previous life experiences. The final trigger can be just the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. Indeed many PTSD sufferers find this is a very apt summation of their own situations.

As far as when the condition may strike, some of the most frightening instances happen during the key triggering event itself, and this may give the subsequent PTSD still greater power over that individual, because they were incapacitated by its commencement at an especially important moment, and may struggle to ever escape the possibility that could happen again at any instant, similarly without warning.

In terms of the Early Science & Medicine paper and ancient Mesopotamian beliefs about mental illness more generally, it's perhaps a mistake to think of the cause having then been attributed to some form of possession by a spirit which must be driven out of that person. Instead, the texts seem more to speak of the afflicted person as having been touched by a ghost or a deity, sometimes repeatedly (hence the references to chasing away the ghost). It's perhaps closer to the continued use of the term "stroke", shortened from "elf-stroke" or "elf-shot" in English, to explain the sudden, seemingly causeless, paralysis a blood clot affecting the brain can cause in humans and animals. It's fair to say there is, as so often, a degree of ambiguity in our understanding of the Mesopotamian texts, but I think in this instance the authors have managed to usefully identify a plausible PTSD candidate, as far as the surviving text allows.
Title: Re: Post traumatic stress in Mesopotamia
Post by: Patrick Waterson on January 26, 2015, 09:22:04 PM
To the Mesopotamian ashipu, from what I understand actual possession was a very different matter to disease, and was comparatively rare.  A disease spirit latched onto the individual but did not 'possess' them.  Similarly, a 'ghost' or vitality-draining entity made a connection which had to be dissolved but did not 'possess'.  We seem to be in agreement that what a western exorcist would regard as 'possession' - a dominant takeover - was not involved, although residence of a sort seemed to be.

I would still advocate caution in concluding that PTSD is involved in the Assyrian cases referred to.

The case of Epizelus is interesting because I have a dim recollection of something vaguely similar in Scandinavian sagas when Odin was believed to be roaming a battlefield.  Does this ring a bell with anyone?
Title: Re: Post traumatic stress in Mesopotamia
Post by: Sharur on January 28, 2015, 01:12:56 AM
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on January 26, 2015, 09:22:04 PMA disease spirit latched onto the individual but did not 'possess' them.

The Mesopotamian phrasing is more suggestive of a simple contact, apparently a, maybe figurative, touch of the ghost or deity's hand, not the prolonged contact implied by your "latched onto" phrasing Patrick, or your earlier "drive" or "entice out", hence my comments regarding "possession".

Quote from: Patrick Waterson on January 26, 2015, 09:22:04 PMThe case of Epizelus is interesting because I have a dim recollection of something vaguely similar in Scandinavian sagas when Odin was believed to be roaming a battlefield.  Does this ring a bell with anyone?

The Ynglinga Saga has:

Odin could make his enemies in battle blind, or deaf, or terror-struck, and their weapons so blunt that they could no more but  than a willow wand; on the other hand, his men rushed forwards without armour, were as mad as dogs or wolves, bit their shields, and were strong as bears or wild bulls, and killed people at a blow, but neither fire nor iron told upon themselves.  These were called Berserker.

(From Section 6 Of Odin's Accomplishments on this webpage (http://omacl.org/Heimskringla/ynglinga.html).)

I also traced a reference in a printed version of the Flateyjarbók, which I've struggled to find an English version of online. However, I finally traced one to p.52 of a PDF book chapter from High Gods of the Northland, Book III: Religion, by Timothy J Stephany, published in 2009 (link (http://timothystephany.com/papers/Northland_09revision_book3.pdf)). The wording is identical to my printed source. The "him" in the first sentence is Odin:

Eirik dedicated himself to him in exchange for victory, and pledged to die in ten years' time. He had already made many sacrifices, since it seemed likely that he would come off worst. Shortly afterwards, he saw a tall man with a hood over his face. He gave Eirik a thin stick, and told him to cast it over Styrbjörn's host, and to say: 'Let Odin take you all.' But when he had thrown it, it seemed to him like a javelin in flight and soared over Styrbjörn's host. Instantly a blindness fell over Styrbjörn's men, and then over Styrbjörn himself. Then a great miracle occurred, because an avalanche took hold on the mountain and collapsed on Styrbjörn's host, and all his men were killed.

Page 51 of this same PDF repeats the Ynglinga Saga notes, there also attributing them to the Eyrbyggja Saga
Title: Re: Post traumatic stress in Mesopotamia
Post by: Andreas Johansson on January 28, 2015, 07:25:39 AM
The Eirik in question is Erik the Victorious, often considered the first fully historical Swedish king.

(The mountain is more mysterious, as the area were the battle was fought is pretty flat.)
Title: Re: Post traumatic stress in Mesopotamia
Post by: Patrick Waterson on January 29, 2015, 01:02:53 PM
Quote from: Sharur on January 28, 2015, 01:12:56 AM

The Mesopotamian phrasing is more suggestive of a simple contact, apparently a, maybe figurative, touch of the ghost or deity's hand, not the prolonged contact implied by your "latched onto" phrasing Patrick, or your earlier "drive" or "entice out", hence my comments regarding "possession".

A fair point: I shall be more careful with terminology for the discerning reader.

Quote
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on January 26, 2015, 09:22:04 PMThe case of Epizelus is interesting because I have a dim recollection of something vaguely similar in Scandinavian sagas when Odin was believed to be roaming a battlefield.  Does this ring a bell with anyone?

The Ynglinga Saga has:

Odin could make his enemies in battle blind, or deaf, or terror-struck, and their weapons so blunt that they could no more but  than a willow wand; on the other hand, his men rushed forwards without armour, were as mad as dogs or wolves, bit their shields, and were strong as bears or wild bulls, and killed people at a blow, but neither fire nor iron told upon themselves.  These were called Berserker.

(From Section 6 Of Odin's Accomplishments on this webpage (http://omacl.org/Heimskringla/ynglinga.html).)

I also traced a reference in a printed version of the Flateyjarbók, which I've struggled to find an English version of online. However, I finally traced one to p.52 of a PDF book chapter from High Gods of the Northland, Book III: Religion, by Timothy J Stephany, published in 2009 (link (http://timothystephany.com/papers/Northland_09revision_book3.pdf)). The wording is identical to my printed source. The "him" in the first sentence is Odin:

Eirik dedicated himself to him in exchange for victory, and pledged to die in ten years' time. He had already made many sacrifices, since it seemed likely that he would come off worst. Shortly afterwards, he saw a tall man with a hood over his face. He gave Eirik a thin stick, and told him to cast it over Styrbjörn's host, and to say: 'Let Odin take you all.' But when he had thrown it, it seemed to him like a javelin in flight and soared over Styrbjörn's host. Instantly a blindness fell over Styrbjörn's men, and then over Styrbjörn himself. Then a great miracle occurred, because an avalanche took hold on the mountain and collapsed on Styrbjörn's host, and all his men were killed.

Page 51 of this same PDF repeats the Ynglinga Saga notes, there also attributing them to the Eyrbyggja Saga

Yes, thank you - this is what was dimly flitting through my memory.  This kind of behaviour by Odin or his lookalike would presumably not be interpreted as mass PTSD on the part of Styrbjörn and his army.  (As Andreas notes, there seems to be a general absence of mountains (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gamla_uppsala.jpg) to create avalanches in the area.)
Title: Re: Post traumatic stress in Mesopotamia
Post by: Sharur on January 29, 2015, 08:44:57 PM
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on January 29, 2015, 01:02:53 PMThis kind of behaviour by Odin or his lookalike would presumably not be interpreted as mass PTSD on the part of Styrbjörn and his army.  (As Andreas notes, there seems to be a general absence of mountains (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gamla_uppsala.jpg) to create avalanches in the area.)

Though the more selective battle-blindness/deafness/terror striking might be interpretable thus.

For the mountainous terrain, and assuming the battle site has been correctly located, the text seems a little ambiguous (possibly because of its translation into English) but might be taken to imply the avalanche actually brought the mountain down too. It reads a little like some of the folkloric explanations for terrain oddities elsewhere. Blinding the host and Styrbjörn just before the avalanche seems a trifle overkill, though again, it might be taken as a reference to the darkening that happens just before someone's buried by a severe avalanche rather than "true" blindness.
Title: Re: Post traumatic stress in Mesopotamia
Post by: Patrick Waterson on January 30, 2015, 07:43:07 PM
Quote from: Sharur on January 29, 2015, 08:44:57 PM
Blinding the host and Styrbjörn just before the avalanche seems a trifle overkill, though again, it might be taken as a reference to the darkening that happens just before someone's buried by a severe avalanche rather than "true" blindness.

Although first-hand accounts of such a phenomenon might be hard to come by without a spaewoman: knowledge of such a 'darkening' would seem to be confined to those who did not survive the 'severe avalanche'.

Anyway, Odin's habit of selective blinding, slaying et. al. seem to have been replicated by Epizelus' mysterious large bearded man at Marathon.  Whether this indicates that a rogue deity was in the habit of clandestine slaughter at varying times and locations I do not know; whether Epizelus had incurred previous traumatic experiences at the hands of large bearded men is a question I leave open for those who may wish to dwell upon it.
Title: Re: Post traumatic stress in Mesopotamia
Post by: Sharur on January 31, 2015, 12:41:43 AM
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on January 30, 2015, 07:43:07 PM
Although first-hand accounts of such a phenomenon might be hard to come by without a spaewoman: knowledge of such a 'darkening' would seem to be confined to those who did not survive the 'severe avalanche'.

Though nowadays, we can find out by watching a video by someone unlucky enough to be caught in one, and lucky enough to have been rescued, like this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbuk9AyEap8).
Title: Re: Post traumatic stress in Mesopotamia
Post by: Patrick Waterson on January 31, 2015, 05:55:35 PM
That would be a bit worrying, certainly.