http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35935725
plus this will be shown on Monday 4th April on BBC1 20.30
I'm not surprised, as a boy I read the Henry Treece Viking trilogy 8)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_Trilogy
I have read various reports in the past of what appear to be finds linked to the Vikings down the east coast of the USA, but there was a general feeling that they were more in the line of exploration parties rather than settlements. This program may raise a very uncomfortable issue for some historians in the USA...
I thought the programme last night was quite good to watch albeit in the vanilla-ised BBC populist viewing stylee 8)
I also watched the programme last night. Although it is impressive that turf walls can be detected from orbit and under 6" of soil, the settlement found seemed very similar to those previously identified on Newfoundland. Thus, it does not really upset any strongly held beliefs regarding extent of Viking trade/colonisation in North America.
Quote from: NickHarbud on April 05, 2016, 08:22:39 AM
I also watched the programme last night. Although it is impressive that turf walls can be detected from orbit and under 6" of soil, the settlement found seemed very similar to those previously identified on Newfoundland. Thus, it does not really upset any strongly held beliefs regarding extent of Viking trade/colonisation in North America.
Agree - I was astonished they made such claims when all they seem to have detected was another temporary base exactly where mainstream archaeologists would expect it to be. Maybe further excavation will reveal a longer term settlement site, with evidence of farming and burials. That would be a game changer.
I did enjoy the programme - serious remote sensing. Bit too much padding though - how many pictures of a CGI satellite or a knarr cleaving the waves did we need? At least there were no cheesy re-enactments.
Quote from: Erpingham on April 05, 2016, 09:22:14 AM
Agree - I was astonished they made such claims when all they seem to have detected was another temporary base exactly where mainstream archaeologists would expect it to be.
A TV documentary exaggerating the importance of what it's reporting on? That's surely less than astonishing.
I remember that brief period when history docs had no cgu and relied on reenactors instead.
It's a shame that passed so quickly.
Watching six re-enactors trying to pass themselves off as a battle had a charm all of its own :)
Quote from: Jim Webster on April 06, 2016, 08:45:16 AM
Watching six re-enactors trying to pass themselves off as a battle had a charm all of its own :)
Then it turns into groundhog day, with the same six re-enactors, in the same shots, edited in the same way, being every battle :(
Or, in this case, the same CGI satellite sequence being used as a linking device over and over.
There was some good use of reconstruction in this documentary - two different Viking ship replicas (shame they didn't think to talk about why one was the sort you might use for exploration and one for raiding), a reconstructed turf longhouse so we knew what they were digging up should look like and even a bit of blacksmithing. There were bleak, wintery shots of cgi York and burning monasteries used sparingly. So by no means all fluff.
Good programme. Just double the length needed to tell the story. No one mentioned why the Vikings would have carried treated ire to use as raw material rather than carrying nails?
R
Quote from: aligern on April 06, 2016, 04:15:21 PM
No one mentioned why the Vikings would have carried treated ire to use as raw material rather than carrying nails?
R
It was left hanging a bit. The obvious answer is the bog iron was collected locally (they seemed to be digging in a bog), roasted in the excavated spot and then smelted elsewhere on site. Or perhaps they shipped it back up the coast to L'Anse aux Meadows, where we know they had metal working. Part of this would be about the availability/accessibility of bog iron on Newfoundland, which I don't think was mentioned.
The evidence continues to mount showing the possibility that the Kensington Runestone is genuine after all...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensington_Runestone
had a conversation with child no.2 the other day...
her: who was it that discovered America....you know.....erm.....who was it etc?
Me: the Vikings
her: no not them the other one
Me; no really the Vikings
her: after them I mean
Me: Christopher Columbus (sighs)
her: yep that's the one
Dave
I don't know but I suspect it was more likely that the americas were discovered by a Paleo-Indian whose name is unknown to us (not least because it was before they discovered/invented writing, or because it was not important enough for them to write down).
If you read the lyrics of the Bob Dylan song "Bob Dylan's 115th Dream" it imples that he discovered it before Columbus...
Tim has a point, although a geographical discovery is not officially considered to be a discovery until undertaken, and preferably reported, by a European. The fact that 100 million plus people may already be living there does not count. :)
Incidentally, Child no.2 is in error: Columbus discovered (in the European sense) 'the Americas' but not the American continent. That discovery (or rediscovery) apparently went to Zuan Chabotto/Giovanni Chabbote (John Cabot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cabot)) in 1497. And he may have been checking out a land which had been 'found and discovered in the past' by seamen from the port of Bristol.
Indeed both....
I was trying to educate my child enough to get her interested in Vikings and thus possibly a stint of painting for me
crafty eh? ;)
A stratagem definitely worth developing, and perhaps less risky than: "What colours do you think would look nice on them?" ;)
I'll see how she gets on but may apply a devil may care approach! :)
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on July 13, 2016, 08:02:29 PM
A stratagem definitely worth developing, and perhaps less risky than: "What colours do you think would look nice on them?" ;)
I have some Minifigs Vikings painted by Mrs G-L when she was at home and bored with being pregnant. They have fetching shades of gloss lime green, orange, peacock blue, sunshine yellow etc. She did some Janissaries too, and those lads still see service.
Quote from: John GL on July 14, 2016, 12:13:49 AM
I have some Minifigs Vikings painted by Mrs G-L when she was at home and bored with being pregnant. They have fetching shades of gloss lime green, orange, peacock blue, sunshine yellow etc. She did some Janissaries too, and those lads still see service.
poor fellas..... :)
But imagine the effect upon their enemies who were living in a largely monochrome world...
I had some Pre Feudal Scots like that :)
Quote from: Holly on July 13, 2016, 08:03:04 AM
had a conversation with child no.2 the other day...
her: who was it that discovered America....you know.....erm.....who was it etc?
Me: the Vikings
her: no not them the other one
Me; no really the Vikings
her: after them I mean
Me: Christopher Columbus (sighs)
her: yep that's the one
You could refine it:
She: Daddy, who discovered America?
He: America? Oh, the Red Indians or course, coming from Asia.
She (frown)
He: Sorry, I meant the Native Americans.
She (frown deepens)
He: Oh....um....the Vikings, I meant.
She (pout added to frown)
He (wearily): Fine. Christopher Columbus...
Quote from: Justin Swanton on July 15, 2016, 04:52:16 PM
Quote from: Holly on July 13, 2016, 08:03:04 AM
had a conversation with child no.2 the other day...
her: who was it that discovered America....you know.....erm.....who was it etc?
Me: the Vikings
her: no not them the other one
Me; no really the Vikings
her: after them I mean
Me: Christopher Columbus (sighs)
her: yep that's the one
You could refine it:
She: Daddy, who discovered America?
He: America? Oh, the Red Indians or course, coming from Asia.
She (frown)
He: Sorry, I meant the Native Americans.
She (frown deepens)
He: Oh....um....the Vikings, I meant.
She (pout added to frown)
He (wearily): Fine. Christopher Columbus...
pretty close :)
It just shows how there are answers and expected answers: our children end up with a mindset (or 'fact set') almost as rigidly instilled as that of the average mediaeval churchman.
And then they discover wargaming ... without wargaming, my own grasp of history would be even worse than it is now. :)
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on July 16, 2016, 10:24:35 AM
It just shows how there are answers and expected answers: our children end up with a mindset (or 'fact set') almost as rigidly instilled as that of the average mediaeval churchman.
And then they discover wargaming ... without wargaming, my own grasp of history would be even worse than it is now. :)
its a very good point Patrick.....I feel the same although I have always had a parallel love of history. Wargaming encourages research and research more often than not improves understanding (apart from Arthurology!). All good stuff :)
Holly, at least the lessons you have learnt from wargaming mean your Arthurology is dressed Post-Roman rather than like refugees from Agincourt...
Quote from: Tim on July 16, 2016, 01:58:18 PM
Holly, at least the lessons you have learnt from wargaming mean your Arthurology is dressed Post-Roman rather than like refugees from Agincourt...
oh absolutely although as a slight aside I once did a Camlann reenactment weekend in Tintagel and ended up facing amongst other things a Sith Lord (dont ask)
So that was Mordred's guilty little secret ... ;)
Tim, you are correct sir! DBA Lists IV/9, IV/10, IV/11, IV/19, IV/29, IV/70, IV/71, and especially my favorite III/41 "Dog Peoples" could be flexed into the mists of paleo-history... substituting the atl atl for Bw...
http://westerndigs.org/skeletons-in-utah-cave-are-victims-of-prehistoric-war-study-says/
Dave
Quote from: Tim on July 13, 2016, 09:43:52 AM
Dave
I don't know but I suspect it was more likely that the americas were discovered by a Paleo-Indian whose name is unknown to us (not least because it was before they discovered/invented writing, or because it was not important enough for them to write down).
If you read the lyrics of the Bob Dylan song "Bob Dylan's 115th Dream" it imples that he discovered it before Columbus...