Does anyone have any sources to cast light on what sorts of standards/banners etc were carried by Khitan troops at the start of the 13 century?
By that time the Khitan were subject to the Jurchen, and then to the Mongols, and I don't know of any data from that period. Chinese-influenced flags of some type, though.
The "Xiongnu" from the NY "18 Songs" manuscript are usually thought to be based on earlier Khitan, and they carry a group of flags in the colours of the Five Directions - see https://scrolls.uchicago.edu/scroll/eighteen-songs-nomad-flute-story-lady-wenji
I may be able to find a couple of other pictures this evening, but they won't be 13th-century.
Thank you Duncan, I wasn't overly optimistic about finding authoritative material, so any sort of representation, even if anachronistic would be good...
This (http://www.cafa.com.cn/news/huge_images/2014313162760.jpg), I believe, is Khitan-Liao, the Eagle Army fresco referred to here (http://www.chinahotelsreservation.com/china_travel/Museum_Preserves_Ancient_Frescos_3749.html).
This one (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/2b/2a/27/2b2a27da0927a117b2c505edcb90915b.jpg) is a modern painting of Khitan, but it's by M Gorelik, who can usually be taken seriously.
And this page (http://military.china.com/zh_cn/dljl/songchao/01/11044627/20100427/15912046.html) has some paintings with Jurchen-Jin flags, if that's the period you're after.
That's terrific. thanks Duncan. I started on one version tonight, it looks rather good.
Quote from: Duncan Head on August 30, 2016, 07:04:31 PM
And this page (http://military.china.com/zh_cn/dljl/songchao/01/11044627/20100427/15912046.html) has some paintings with Jurchen-Jin flags, if that's the period you're after.
Interesting - looks like the flag has the five colours of the directions on it. The order would work if the other side of the flag is the mirror image, then reading E, S, W, N (which is apparently the current Chinese method, beginning with E).
If my Chinese is correct, this may show Liao banners. http://www.nationalgeographic.com.cn/science/archaeology/2829.html (http://www.nationalgeographic.com.cn/science/archaeology/2829.html)
Wiki has a decent article on the Jin Song Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin–Song_Wars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin%E2%80%93Song_Wars) with some good depictions of Jurchen and Khitan Liao armies and banners https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Battleofzhuxiancounty.jpg (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Battleofzhuxiancounty.jpg) that are 13th century.
Quote from: Dave Beatty on September 05, 2016, 12:59:18 PM
If my Chinese is correct, this may show Liao banners. http://www.nationalgeographic.com.cn/science/archaeology/2829.html (http://www.nationalgeographic.com.cn/science/archaeology/2829.html)
Most of the illustrations are well-known Tang tomb-paintings. The first one I don't recognize, but it looks fairly Tang.
QuoteWiki has a decent article on the Jin Song Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin–Song_Wars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin%E2%80%93Song_Wars) with some good depictions of Jurchen and Khitan Liao armies and banners https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Battleofzhuxiancounty.jpg (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Battleofzhuxiancounty.jpg) that are 13th century.
Pretty, but obviously modern, and I'm not sure how much faith I'd put in the artist's ideas.
The first link is for a related article in connection with Empress Wu.
The second link is modern and looks more like Ming and Ching rather than Tang or Khitan