Anybody have any idea re army composition for the state of Atropatene in the 3rd century BC and subsequently?
Quote from: Strabo XI.13.2It is no small country, considering its power, as Apollonides says, since it can furnish as many as ten thousand horsemen and forty thousand foot-soldiers.
Strabo implies that the mountain tribes are included in Atropatene:
QuoteAll regions of this country are fertile except the part towards the north, which is mountainous and rugged and cold, the abode of the mountaineers called Cadusii, Amardi, Tapyri, Cyrtii and other such peoples, who are migrants and predatory; for the Zagrus and Niphates mountains keep these tribes scattered; and the Cyrtii in Persis, and the Mardi (for the Amardi are also thus called), and those in Armenia who to this day are called by the same name, are of the same character.
The Cadusii, however, are but little short of the Ariani in the number of their foot-soldiers; and their javelin-throwers are excellent; and in rugged places foot-soldiers instead of horsemen do the fighting.
The "Parthian" infantryman with the big Roman-style shield discovered a few years ago is probably Atropatenean, because Zahhak Castle seems to be in Atropatene:
http://www.cais-soas.com/News/2005/April2005/21-04.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zahhak_Castle
Thanks Duncan. Any ideas about the nature of the "10,000" cavalry?
Nothing firm. I would assume Parthian types.
Quote from: Duncan Head on October 26, 2016, 02:31:57 PM
Nothing firm. I would assume Parthian types.
That makes sense after circa 145 BC, but before that presumably not.
I see four main possibilities for the earlier heavier cavalry: Xystophoroi (perhaps not very plausible. The kingdom started as a diadochi satrapy under the former Achaemenid governor of Media, but he seceded from the Seleucid kingdom after only a couple of years), Late Achaemenid Persian style cavalry, Sarmatian influenced cavalry (like the Iberians. However, it may be significant that the Albanians, to the north of Atropatene, seem not to have been lancers.), or Armenian-style cavalry (but I don't think we really know how those were equipped in this early period).
As I am just filling in a very small nook in a forthcoming Ancients computer game, plausibility will suffice if hard facts are unavailable, but I would very much value your input.
Didn't Median cavalry have a consistent record of service from the Achaemenid period through the Successors. The question might then be to what extent they Hellenised , did they adopt a long spear and when would they have moved to being cataphracts . Likely they moved to horse armour and spear whilst still part of the Seleucid organisation and upgraded to cataphracts in Parthian style when power transferred. It is inherently likely that there were always heavy cavalry from this area and in Parthian armies that had lesser levels of protection than the elite Parthains that are illustrated.
Roy
Ah yes, I forgot the "3rd century" bit in the original post, sorry. I don't see Sarmatian influence as likely that early, so I'd probably go for an Achaemenid look. But I'm not aware of any direct evidence. The Seleucid agema were recruited in Media, but that was Greater Media, and we're only guessing what they looked like anyway :(
I think either the Cadusii or near neighbours would have provided troops
"The Cadusii, however, are but little short of the Ariani in the number of their foot-soldiers; and their javelin-throwers are excellent; and in rugged places foot-soldiers instead of horsemen do the fighting."
Proto-Daylami? Seems Polybius's (and possibly Plutarch's) mention of Elymaîoi in the Caspian region is assumed to be a mistake for Delymaîoi.
Plutarch's only comment is that the King of the Medes (who seem to be of M. Atr.) would make up for Antony's lack of horsemen and archers.
Quote from: Swampster on October 27, 2016, 10:20:09 AM
Plutarch's only comment is that the King of the Medes (who seem to be of M. Atr.) would make up for Antony's lack of horsemen and archers.
Ah, useful titbit of information re the archers, thanks.