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General Category => Army Research => Topic started by: Dangun on October 31, 2016, 01:24:32 PM

Title: Indonesian Cavalry?
Post by: Dangun on October 31, 2016, 01:24:32 PM
After reviewing some holiday pics, I thought this was interesting...

Its an image of a horse from Borobudur with stirrups.
Its a bit odd because Borobudur is 8th century and the horses shown at 12th century Angkor don't have stirrups.
So I guess the horses and stirrup technology came from a different route than those that got to Angkor.

I know this has come up on the forum before, but I was unable to find the thread  ::)

(http://i.imgur.com/D6oDZzx.jpg)
Title: Re: Indonesian Cavalry?
Post by: Duncan Head on October 31, 2016, 01:45:57 PM
Unless their absence at Angkor could be some sort of artistic archaicism?
Title: Re: Indonesian Cavalry?
Post by: Dangun on October 31, 2016, 02:07:33 PM
Quote from: Duncan Head on October 31, 2016, 01:45:57 PM
Unless their absence at Angkor could be some sort of artistic archaicism?

Definitely possible.

But I note there are stirrup-less horse in the "historical procession" as well as in the other more religiously themed sculpture.
So if it was an artifact of artistry it would be a meta-theme, as distinct from a religious theme.
Title: Re: Indonesian Cavalry?
Post by: Duncan Head on October 31, 2016, 02:20:04 PM
"Stirrup. Bronze. Cambodia, Khmer period, 11th-13th century" -  http://www.vandaimages.com/results.asp?inline=true&image=2006AT8964-01&wwwflag=1&imagepos=1

A very brief passage on stirrups in https://www.academia.edu/4539850/Horse-Trading_and_Horse-Carving_Horses_on_Angkorian_Temple_Reliefs which generally suggests that Khmer horses came ultimately from China:

QuoteAngkorian temple reliefs show horses of Yunnan type but not of Indian type, with thesignificant exception of the Lvo cavalry. Horses may originally have come from Yunnan viaMyanmar and Bengal, then later via Annam, the horses being in each case shipped toSoutheast Asia by the Cham.
Title: Re: Indonesian Cavalry?
Post by: Dangun on October 31, 2016, 02:31:07 PM
Another thing in the Borobudur image that is missing from Angkor is the hard saddle.
Its certainly not clear, but there does seem to be a cantle under the rider's bum, and there might be a round pommel up front?
Title: Re: Indonesian Cavalry?
Post by: Yin Shao Loong on October 31, 2016, 03:53:07 PM
The stirrup in Borobudur may have an Indian provenance, though China is also near enough.

In contemporary Indonesian 'stirrup' is sanggurdi, which may come from the Javanese 'Songgowedi'. I was unable to learn more of its etymology.

In the related Malay language 'stirrup' is alternately sanggurdi or rakap. Rakap appears to be derived from the Hindi rakaab. Malay originates in Sumatra though it became the lingua franca for the archipelago as a whole.

I can't find any references for you in Indonesian, but Google throws plenty of info about stirrup bones!