SoA Forums

History => Ancient and Medieval History => Topic started by: Imperial Dave on April 03, 2018, 07:34:02 PM

Title: Study of classics in Scotland.....
Post by: Imperial Dave on April 03, 2018, 07:34:02 PM
https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/call-reverse-near-extinction-classics-scottish-schools

is there an equivalent decline in the rest of the UK schools?
Title: Re: Study of classics in Scotland.....
Post by: aligern on April 04, 2018, 06:25:22 PM
I suspect it has a deadly enemy in trendy teachers. Scotland was arguably never part of the Roman Empire, nor really was England. Teaching classical history is part of establishing a common European heritage and background above and beyond our more particular nationalisms, though the mediaeval and Renaissance threads of that European commonality have no consistent disciplinary unity which can be taught which is a pity because I suspect that failure to understand our deep 'Europeanness' has consequences . Its a little like the loss of bible studies, how could anyone understand Cromwell without having looked at his handbook?
The good bit about Greek, Roman and indeed bible ( OT) studies is that they are all rich in people whacking each other.
Do I own Beethoven or am I stuck with Benjamin Britten?
R
Title: Re: Study of classics in Scotland.....
Post by: Imperial Dave on April 04, 2018, 08:43:49 PM
my son studies some aspects in his RE course and finds it fascinating but its not classical studies by any definition.
Title: Re: Study of classics in Scotland.....
Post by: Duncan Head on April 04, 2018, 08:49:03 PM
Quote from: aligern on April 04, 2018, 06:25:22 PM
I suspect it has a deadly enemy in trendy teachers.

Quote from: justin
I suspect that 'trendy' is on its way out. As the liberal cultural establishment....

Can we please keep the modern political stuff off this forum, before it turns into TMP?
Title: Re: Study of classics in Scotland.....
Post by: Justin Swanton on April 04, 2018, 08:55:27 PM
Quote from: Duncan Head on April 04, 2018, 08:49:03 PM
Quote from: aligern on April 04, 2018, 06:25:22 PM
I suspect it has a deadly enemy in trendy teachers.

Quote from: justin
I suspect that 'trendy' is on its way out. As the liberal cultural establishment....

Can we please keep the modern political stuff off this forum, before it turns into TMP?

Fine. Done. Fascinating topic though.
Title: Re: Study of classics in Scotland.....
Post by: Mark G on April 05, 2018, 08:08:43 AM
There is a distinctly local aspect that cannot be elucidated without crossing that line.  It is a much more geographically located driver than any broader zeitgeist narrative.
Title: Re: Study of classics in Scotland.....
Post by: Dangun on April 05, 2018, 03:31:03 PM
Isn't it just a more mundane economic process?
University education is increasingly expensive, favouring degrees that produce an economic return. And employers are increasingly see a benefit in vocationally tailored degrees.

I have one of each and it is the vocational degree, not the classics,  that pays the bills.
Title: Re: Study of classics in Scotland.....
Post by: Imperial Dave on April 05, 2018, 05:45:57 PM
Quote from: Dangun on April 05, 2018, 03:31:03 PM
Isn't it just a more mundane economic process?
University education is increasingly expensive, favouring degrees that produce an economic return. And employers are increasingly see a benefit in vocationally tailored degrees.

I have one of each and it is the vocational degree, not the classics,  that pays the bills.

agreed in respect of vocational versus Uni degrees. I have one of each as well and its the vocational one that wins hands down in terms of career and progression etc
Title: Re: Study of classics in Scotland.....
Post by: Andreas Johansson on April 05, 2018, 05:52:31 PM
Here, a university education in classics would be vocational training. Vocational training for becoming an academic classicist, but still.
Title: Re: Study of classics in Scotland.....
Post by: Mark G on April 06, 2018, 06:52:45 AM
A rigid focus on vocation meaning worthwhile is quite central to the strategy at play here.  Except also Gaelic for some reason, especially in the places the gaels never were.
Title: Re: Study of classics in Scotland.....
Post by: DougM on April 06, 2018, 07:53:52 AM
Quote from: Mark G on April 06, 2018, 06:52:45 AM
A rigid focus on vocation meaning worthwhile is quite central to the strategy at play here.  Except also Gaelic for some reason, especially in the places the gaels never were.

Care to evidence that latter statement Mark? The place name evidence is pretty conclusive, including in the Lothians.

And my 17 yr old nephew just missed out on the classics prize at our local state school. So I don't think it is as clear cut as all that.

As for hints of nasty conspiracies, it's local authorities who run education, and at least in Scotland the curriculum for excellence was a cross party initiative.
Title: Re: Study of classics in Scotland.....
Post by: Mark G on April 06, 2018, 05:44:17 PM
Try asking an educator Doug.

But well done to your kid
Title: Re: Study of classics in Scotland.....
Post by: Erpingham on April 07, 2018, 09:41:04 AM
Quote from: Mark G on April 06, 2018, 05:44:17 PM
Try asking an educator Doug.

But well done to your kid

Perhaps the lesson is we can't discuss education without getting political?

I suggest any further discussion of place name evidence and the presence of Gaelic speakers across the whole of Scotland takes place in its own thread.  As this would involve discussion of the languages of the Caledonians and Picts and the coming of the Scots and Anglians, it might be of interest.
Title: Re: Study of classics in Scotland.....
Post by: Imperial Dave on April 07, 2018, 09:58:38 AM
absolutely and a very interesting thread in itself as you suggest
Title: Re: Study of classics in Scotland.....
Post by: Anton on April 07, 2018, 11:22:17 AM
It would indeed be an interesting thread.  I'd certainly contribute.

Congratulations to Doug's lad too.