dont laugh but.......
https://www.express.co.uk/news/history/628827/ANCIENT-ROMANS-America-eerie-discovery-change-history
I shall await the archaeological survey reports that show the Roman artefacts in situ.
As to Berberis bushes, a lot of Romans must have been shipwrecked round here too, given the number of them in gardens and garden centres.
I recommend a return to the Daily Mail Dave - the archaeology reporting is better :)
very true lol ;D
And I always thought it was the Gauls...
(https://i.imgur.com/l2OTbX6.jpg)
Even if the report is false the chance that someone from the Roman Empire 'discovered' America is quite high. The Empire had an Atlantic frontage for something like 800 years and they had ships that could survive the Bay of Biscay and the Channel. There is every chance that a ship or two in that period got blown off course and then carried by the current across to America. The big limitation would be on the amount if water on board and how long it would last. Perhaps a trading ship carrying whine and oil to Britannia would have enough on board to keep body and soul together. It is s interesting that the Guanches make it from N Africa to the Canaries and yet have no apparent seafaring tradition. Similarly with the Chinese and the Polynesians who are both thought by sone to have made it to the Americas. However, to be the discoverer of something you really gave to come back and report on it.
Quote from: aligern on May 13, 2019, 12:55:43 PM
However, to be the discoverer of something you really gave to come back and report on it.
And you report has to reach the top and be acted upon, otherwise you were simply 'lost'. ;)
I was amused by the statement:
"
I think anything that challenges history is very risky, very dangerous and extremely political"
Quote from: Erpingham on May 12, 2019, 08:35:13 AM
As to Berberis bushes, a lot of Romans must have been shipwrecked round here too, given the number of them in gardens and garden centres.
Funnily enough quite a lot were - albeit around the British coasts rather than in central Bradford
per se - at least as far as I am aware.
The intriguing bit of evidence - which does seem to get around the 'collector' hypothesis (the sword despite its impeccable metallurgy looks a bit odd to my untrained eye) - is the fifty Roman nautical terms in the M'kmaq language. This would indicate that M'kmaq natives had been enlisted as ship crew at some point, i.e. contact was of some intensity and duration; it was not just a matter of an odd shipwreck.
From the Carthaginian coinage (date?) one might gain some idea of the era in which contact took place. This however does not seem to have been followed up.
QuoteFunnily enough quite a lot were - albeit around the British coasts rather than in central Bradford per se - at least as far as I am aware.
Even after we got the canal, they were very rare :)
QuoteThe intriguing bit of evidence - which does seem to get around the 'collector' hypothesis (the sword despite its impeccable metallurgy looks a bit odd to my untrained eye) - is the fifty Roman nautical terms in the M'kmaq language.
I think we might need some independent confirmation of that. That is a lot of technical words to survive 1500 years without a live sea-faring tradition. We might also question whether other mechanisms could account for it, such as the influence of French.
Quote from: Erpingham on May 13, 2019, 02:23:57 PM
We might also question whether other mechanisms could account for it, such as the influence of French.
French Canadians would be our friends there.
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on May 13, 2019, 02:33:46 PM
Quote from: Erpingham on May 13, 2019, 02:23:57 PM
We might also question whether other mechanisms could account for it, such as the influence of French.
French Canadians would be our friends there.
A number of websites do seem to suggest that the Miꞌkmaq had a particularly close alliance with the French settlements.
Quote from: Duncan Head on May 13, 2019, 03:44:28 PM
A number of websites do seem to suggest that the Miꞌkmaq had a particularly close alliance with the French settlements.
This does raise the possibility of acquisition by that route.
The next step would be to establish whether the 16th-18th century French, especially those in Canada, used Roman nautical terms - specifically the 50 the good professor claims to have identified - if one can discover what those are.