Recent discussion in the Painted and Arrayed topic about the Melanchlaeni, a Scythian tribe whose name apparently means black-cloaked, set me to thinking about black clothes in antiquity. I recall way back in my teens when painting up Thracian peltasts for my Macedonian army, the Barker gospel on these was all Thracians wore black tunics (according to wiki, there is a reference to them doing so at Pydna, though there maybe something in the sources which indicates this was a universal).
Forward to modern day me, with an interest in medieval clothes. Black is a very difficult dye to make and a good black was a luxury colour. So how did whole tribes end up wearing it in antiquity?
One possibility is they had dyes that the medievals didn't. Another is that they were wearing undyed wool from black or very dark brown sheep . Is there anything in our sources that provides an answer?
Theophrastus mentions oak gall for a black dye; that's the only reference I recall.
To the tribal use of black we can add that Diodoros says the Celtiberians use rough black cloaks, and Strabo mentions Turdetania (in southern Spain) producing raven-black wool/
Quote from: Duncan Head on August 15, 2023, 07:02:30 PMTheophrastus mentions oak gall for a black dye; that's the only reference I recall.
Oak gall dyes seem less common in the Middle Ages (though clearly known). Ordinary blacks were usually produced by overdyeing - walnut followed by woad was popular (so dark brown dyed dark blue).
Looks like the Iberian ones may have been natural wool colours, though.
In the general region of the Melanchlaeni, much later Tatars are reported to have worn black sheep skins.
Whilst not strictly relevant there is a study of genetics and characteristics of white and black merino wool hee:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1751731118001647
It may have a bearing on the discussions or not but interesting it is to me at least
And here also some background info on black sheep and the wool associated with them inc the welsh breed specifically
https://breeds.okstate.edu/sheep/black-welsh-mountain-sheep.html
You mean that you forgot to find out from your friendly dyers at that event you attended recently?
Baa
Quote from: Nick Harbud on August 16, 2023, 04:20:39 PMYou mean that you forgot to find out from your friendly dyers at that event you attended recently?
Not at all, but they were Tudor workwomen, whose learning in the classics was limited :) They had a good knowledge of medieval dye working though, and we talked about making black cloth and they showed me examples of the walnut followed by woad version. I also had a good time chatting with the young mistresses making felt about the range of natural wool colours available :)
My fault, sorry!
Other than black sheep and goats (and here I am thinking with my ECW hat on of Hodden Grey), the other possibility I suppose is that melas here does not mean "black" as we understand it, but rather a very dark shade of other colours. I think you can get a very dark red out of madder with the right mordaunt; Anthony mentions walnut plus woad of course. If Homer could get away with "wine-dark seas"... As a naval reservist in my youth, I saw many different shades of sea, but never anything remotely wine-dark; I know the poor chap was reckoned to be blind but even so.
Also, I cannot find my Liddell and Scott (suspect my brother may have borrowed it) but I am not sure on the accuracy of the various translations one sees of "clothes/garments", "robes" or "cloaks". My point being not just that it might be just a single item of clothing, but also a specific one, perhaps something like a cloak more suited to heavy wool. That said, there is little artistic evidence, Greek or Scythian, for Scythians wearing cloaks as opposed to kaftans/long coats...
As it happens, my little 6mm Melanchlaeni sport blackish coats, but that is driven by the sculpting of the Baccus figures :D
Lots of black sheep....
Liddell and Scott have "upper-garment, cloak, wrapper" for chlaina, fwiw.
Though the perseus online version only has "black cloaked" for Melanchlaeni. As I know nothing of the language but can only see the dictionary definitions Google brings up, I leave it to the Greek speakers to explain the variation.
What I want to know is that without a really good black dye, what on earth would any self-respecting villains wear? I mean, it is a well-known fact throughout Hollywood that the hero can be a scruffy as he likes, but the bad guys should be a picture of dark sartorial elegance.
And, whilst we are on the subject, Walnutandwoadadder simply does not trip off the tongue.
???
Actually it does Nick :P