https://www.theguardian.com/science/article/2024/jul/04/anglo-saxons-may-have-fought-in-northern-syrian-wars-say-experts
interesting but not surprising in reality. thanks for the link and find Duncan
One wonders how the Byzantines enticed North Europeans to go fight in Syria in the days before air travel and social media. ???
goooooold
As they say, "follow the money" 8)
It is interesting that archaeologists have found evidence of 'regular' Byzantine trade with British sites along the west coast. Tintagel and others.
I wonder if these contacts were not restricted to sub-Roman groups?
Good point Jim. Quite a few Byzantine artifacts have been uncovered in Britain and not just the west
Quote from: Nick Harbud on July 04, 2024, 05:35:06 PMOne wonders how the Byzantines enticed North Europeans to go fight in Syria in the days before air travel and social media. ???
Soft fruit, perhaps? Vikings loved it and - if my memory of long ago lectures is correct - are recorded to have gorged themselves to death on it at times. Excavations of their burial mounds (around Smolensk?) have turned up vast quantities of date pits and other fruit stones.
Well, yes. Tales of bounty in far-off lands would doubtless appeal to a certain portion of any population. However, this does not explain the physical impediments to recruitment on anything other than a very small scale.
How does the message get to a receptive audience? I mean, for sure if you happen to have a recruiter arrive on a ship in a port and start buying drinks at the nearest tavern, this will elicit a certain number of bodies. However, it is not like today when such enticements appear on every smart phone and in every teenage bedroom in the land. It is not even on the same scale as papal representatives recruiting for the crusades.
How do they get to their area of employment? Hopping on a plane and then taking a bus over the border is not an option to a Dark Age Saxon. Overland travel could be a long and hazardous procedure. Sea travel would be quicker and probably less perilous, but how many would be able to pay for this?
???
Quote from: Keraunos on July 04, 2024, 10:55:55 PMQuote from: Nick Harbud on July 04, 2024, 05:35:06 PMOne wonders how the Byzantines enticed North Europeans to go fight in Syria in the days before air travel and social media. ???
Soft fruit, perhaps?
You mean the Byzantines invited them for a date?
Quote from: Nick Harbud on July 05, 2024, 09:41:32 AMWell, yes. Tales of bounty in far-off lands would doubtless appeal to a certain portion of any population. However, this does not explain the physical impediments to recruitment on anything other than a very small scale.
How does the message get to a receptive audience? I mean, for sure if you happen to have a recruiter arrive on a ship in a port and start buying drinks at the nearest tavern, this will elicit a certain number of bodies. However, it is not like today when such enticements appear on every smart phone and in every teenage bedroom in the land. It is not even on the same scale as papal representatives recruiting for the crusades.
How do they get to their area of employment? Hopping on a plane and then taking a bus over the border is not an option to a Dark Age Saxon. Overland travel could be a long and hazardous procedure. Sea travel would be quicker and probably less perilous, but how many would be able to pay for this?
???
Would the recruiters just approach the larger warlords and 'Kings'. They could send men by the ship load
Quote from: Duncan Head on July 05, 2024, 10:17:12 AMYou mean the Byzantines invited them for a date?
Well, people have gone to work on an egg, so why not dates?
Quote from: Jim Webster on July 05, 2024, 11:19:27 AMWould the recruiters just approach the larger warlords and 'Kings'. They could send men by the ship load
Ah, you mean rather than serruptiously poach the odd huscarl from amongst those enjoying a pint in the tavern, the recruiter simply swans up to the local lord and makes him an offer he can't refuse?
"Listen, peasant, my employers can pay more money to their warriors than you can possibly imagine. I'm going to take your entire band of trusted henchmen away with me. Here's a bag of gold. Take it or leave it."???
Quote from: Nick Harbud on July 05, 2024, 12:11:52 PMHere's a bag of gold. Take it or leave it."
Perhaps a bit more colonial style. The great Emperor of the Romans has sent these exotic things which you don't have - bronze buckets, pots full of smelly stuff, dates. If you were his friend and sent warriors to fight for him, there is more where that came from" :)
It's not necessaraly 'recruitment' as we know it. The wealth of the East and multiple instances of Warriors returning from Miklagard (New Rome,aka Byzantium or Constantinople) with tales of huge wealth and easy fights, led to a steady stream of warriors going to make their fortune.
"Go East, young man" ?
kinda
I believe the Miklagard theory for Scandinavians who regularly traded there (although not until much later than the article suggests) and who, BTW launched a couple of wars and a at least siege against the place. However, none of these arguements apply to Saxons squatting in the mud of Western Europe and the British Isles.
Quote from: Erpingham on July 05, 2024, 12:21:59 PMQuote from: Nick Harbud on July 05, 2024, 12:11:52 PMHere's a bag of gold. Take it or leave it."
Perhaps a bit more colonial style. The great Emperor of the Romans has sent these exotic things which you don't have - bronze buckets, pots full of smelly stuff, dates. If you were his friend and sent warriors to fight for him, there is more where that came from" :)
More like that. Also you all have troublesome young men who're forever causing problems. If you and your neighbours all send us a boat load each then things will settle down a bit for you. Exporting young troublemakers has often been a strategy. Especially when you cannot provide them with land, and things are getting tight
I think we may need to apply a bit of Beowulf or Gododdin to the problem. Adventurous young hooligans rocking up at foreign courts expecting a welcome and some gifts, the social contract being they go out and kill your enemies, troublesome monsters etc. The question, as Nick has remarked is it's a long way to go. But maybe the chance to serve the fabulously wealthy Roman Emperor would be enough of a draw? What tales to bring home. What bling. What prestige and status might accrue.
And a bucket...
It may be that young Anglo-Saxon males heading off to the Med is less of a new thing than we think - after all, cheap booze, dusky women, plus the odd fight may sound pretty attractive when you're living in mud.
We also tend to have a very modern mindset about travel. It may have been quicker and much cheaper to reach Constantinople by sea than reaching most of France (mainly) by land.
Remember that Alfred visited Rome.
A lot would depend on what was being carried. Tin is pretty dense, so space for a couple of likely lads off to Greece might be quite cheap.
Plus of course the crews might actually be mainly Anglo-Saxon. Experience of the Atlantic is probably more valuable than experience of the Med.