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History => Ancient and Medieval History => Topic started by: Duncan Head on January 21, 2015, 10:48:37 AM

Title: Revealing letters in rolled Herculaneum papyri by X-ray phase-contrast imaging
Post by: Duncan Head on January 21, 2015, 10:48:37 AM
Reading the scroll without unrolling it because the X-rays can differentiate "the relief of the letters, which rise at least one hundred microns above the surface of the papyrus fibres". This is seriously impressive.

Summary at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-30888767
Article at Nature Communications (http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms6895.epdf?referrer_access_token=biaIpWMWvStDYDlu_dEQA9RgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0PmAEgoyrsaLtcEYldey3iJ3AxTM-_8SIj6VvbiHgvICU-Hub35bkZPdajtVew1Es_mIMaW-LqEuwa6siGD3t46)

Title: Re: Revealing letters in rolled Herculaneum papyri by X-ray phase-contrast imaging
Post by: Jim Webster on January 21, 2015, 03:09:40 PM
very impressive, and fascinating

Jim
Title: Re: Revealing letters in rolled Herculaneum papyri by X-ray phase-contrast imaging
Post by: Patrick Waterson on January 21, 2015, 08:34:09 PM
Also quite remarkable discovering a Greek 'H'. I suspect this may actually have been a pi.  Still, X-ray phase-contrast tomography looks like the best thing since sliced scrolls. :)
Title: Re: Revealing letters in rolled Herculaneum papyri by X-ray phase-contrast imaging
Post by: Duncan Head on January 21, 2015, 09:51:15 PM
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on January 21, 2015, 08:34:09 PM
Also quite remarkable discovering a Greek 'H'. I suspect this may actually have been a pi.

The original article makes clear it's a capital ēta, of course.
Title: Re: Revealing letters in rolled Herculaneum papyri by X-ray phase-contrast imaging
Post by: Tim on January 22, 2015, 08:11:29 PM
Are they Basquing in the glory...?
Title: Re: Revealing letters in rolled Herculaneum papyri by X-ray phase-contrast imaging
Post by: Patrick Waterson on January 22, 2015, 09:29:52 PM
Quote from: Duncan Head on January 21, 2015, 09:51:15 PM
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on January 21, 2015, 08:34:09 PM
Also quite remarkable discovering a Greek 'H'. I suspect this may actually have been a pi.

The original article makes clear it's a capital ēta, of course.

Thanks, Duncan.

It looks as if it will be a while before anything comes to light, but maybe some day we shall have a fuller version of Polybius and see what all the missing bits actually say.
Title: Re: Revealing letters in rolled Herculaneum papyri by X-ray phase-contrast imaging
Post by: Duncan Head on January 22, 2015, 10:03:46 PM
Quote from: Tim on January 22, 2015, 08:11:29 PM
Are they Basquing in the glory...?
I don't think their underwear was mentioned.
Title: Re: Revealing letters in rolled Herculaneum papyri by X-ray phase-contrast imaging
Post by: willb on February 08, 2015, 05:04:25 PM
There is also the possibility that some of the missing histories may be found.
Title: Re: Revealing letters in rolled Herculaneum papyri by X-ray phase-contrast imaging
Post by: Duncan Head on March 22, 2016, 08:56:19 AM
Resurrecting this thread from the ashes - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-35865470 gives a scientific update: apparently there is lead in the ink some centuries earlier than expected.

"Most [of the scrolls] are philosophical works in Greek, but other works include a comedy in Latin" - so don't expect much in the way of historical revelations.
Title: Re: Revealing letters in rolled Herculaneum papyri by X-ray phase-contrast imaging
Post by: Duncan Head on October 03, 2019, 08:40:40 AM
The latest article on trying to read the Herculaneum scrolls - https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/oct/03/ancient-scrolls-charred-by-vesuvius-could-be-read-once-again - suggests that the X-ray phase-contrast stuff at the top of this thread was a false alarm:

Quote... it has also proved impossible to replicate findings that letters within Herculaneum scrolls can be deciphered by the naked eye from scans captured by a slightly different x-ray technique.

But all is not lost:

QuoteAs a result the team have come up with a new approach that uses high-energy x-rays together with a type of artificial intelligence known as machine learning.

Breath still bated, then. However, I think I had missed:

QuoteA new historical work by Seneca the Elder was discovered among the unidentified Herculaneum papyri only last year

For that, see https://www.romeandart.eu/en/art-news-historia-seneca.html:

QuoteA new technology and the expertise and patience of Valeria Piano have given back to the world an important text by Anneo Seneca the Elder: "Historiae ab initio bellorum civileum", a historical work related to events from the period of civil wars to Emperor Tiberius, probably the last work written by the historian who died in 37 AD
Title: Re: Revealing letters in rolled Herculaneum papyri by X-ray phase-contrast imaging
Post by: PMBardunias on October 05, 2019, 07:34:52 PM
I am curious to know what work or works each of you would most like to have found? My tops are Aeneas's and Pyrrhus's Taktica, perhaps Sosylus as well.
Title: Re: Revealing letters in rolled Herculaneum papyri by X-ray phase-contrast imaging
Post by: Patrick Waterson on October 05, 2019, 07:56:14 PM
1) Polybius' missing books.
2) Livy's earlier missing books (judging by a partial recovery of Book XCI, his later books were rather a waste of time).
3) Claudius' Etruscan history.
4) Claudius' Carthaginian history.
Title: Re: Revealing letters in rolled Herculaneum papyri by X-ray phase-contrast imaging
Post by: Tim on October 05, 2019, 11:02:30 PM
Anything so long as it is not more Cassius Dio...
Title: Re: Revealing letters in rolled Herculaneum papyri by X-ray phase-contrast imaging
Post by: Dangun on October 06, 2019, 12:25:37 PM
Ctesias' Persica, Syballine books.