https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/jul/24/pictish-coppersmith-1000-year-old-handprint-found-in-orkney
His fingerprints have been placed on file and passed to Police Scotland's cold cases unit, just in case :)
I'm sure there is a joke about the presidents hand size to be made there somewhere.
"The biggest surprise came when we lifted the larger stone anvil and cleaned it; we could see carbon imprints of the smith's knees and hands."
Not an expert on these matters, but is kneeling on an anvil usual? My impression was that one stood next to the anvil, laid metal on it and walloped the metal. The anvil would remain untouched by human hands, let alone knees.
We were at this dig 3 weeks ago ;-)
There was another about a quarter of a mile away where we were allowed in the pits to pick out shell midden
Where I am the speed the police investigate crime it would not have been considered a cold case...
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on July 25, 2018, 07:04:29 PM
let alone knees.
What exactly does a carbon imprint of a knee on stone look like??
???
Quote from: Dangun on August 11, 2018, 01:32:53 AM
What exactly does a carbon imprint of a knee on stone look like??
???
And how is one which lasts thousands of years achieved?
Quote from: Dangun on August 11, 2018, 01:32:53 AM
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on July 25, 2018, 07:04:29 PM
let alone knees.
What exactly does a carbon imprint of a knee on stone look like??
???
I'd go with the splodge on the left of the photo, the five-fingered splodge on the right being the handprint.
Quote from: Patrick Waterson on August 11, 2018, 07:41:34 AM
Quote from: Dangun on August 11, 2018, 01:32:53 AM
What exactly does a carbon imprint of a knee on stone look like??
???
And how is one which lasts thousands of years achieved?
Probably in a similar way to one that doesn't, the key difference being in the way it was preserved. Carbon staining is remarkably persistent on pots, for example. Unfortunately, we don't know enough about the conditions on site.
It is interesting to speculate how, if the two stains are simultaneous, the smith worked with the anvil. The orientation to the hearth/furnace would be useful to know.
Add : Looking at the photo of it in situ again, I reckon the imprints are on the fire side of the stone, so a left hand and a right knee. Leaning forward to do something with a crucible in the hearth with the right hand, balancing with left hand on anvil?
Quote from: Erpingham on August 11, 2018, 08:19:43 AM
Add : Looking at the photo of it in situ again, I reckon the imprints are on the fire side of the stone, so a left hand and a right knee. Leaning forward to do something with a crucible in the hearth with the right hand, balancing with left hand on anvil?
Could be; logical thinking.
We then have the question why this was not obliterated by the next such usage - or maybe this was the last use of the anvil, and if so one would wonder why. We are of course taking it as read that the said smith would be as grimy as a chimney-sweep on the relevant parts of his anatomy.
A hand I understand... But a knee?
How are there not many other explanations? Sticking with body parts... an elbow? a buttock? Somebody else's buttock? A can of beer?
What exactly is the distinctive feature of a carbonised knee-print?
It might be the jet lag.
Quote from: Dangun on August 13, 2018, 11:46:32 AM
A hand I understand... But a knee?
How are there not many other explanations? Sticking with body parts... an elbow? a buttock? Somebody else's buttock? A can of beer?
What exactly is the distinctive feature of a carbonised knee-print?
Buttocks tend to be larger?
This (https://bradford.ac.uk/news/2018/ancient-handprints.php) looks to be the original on which the newspaper stories are based. Doesn't add much.
Quote from: Dangun on August 13, 2018, 11:46:32 AM
A hand I understand... But a knee?
How are there not many other explanations? Sticking with body parts... an elbow? a buttock? Somebody else's buttock? A can of beer?
Look again at the orientation of the stone. Anyone sitting on it and leaving their buttock print has their feet in the furnace. An elbow would be possible, as would the palm of a hand or even a foot.
The streaky finger mark would point to something transitory rather than a habitual resting of the hand, whereas I don't think you can make the same assumption for the other mark.
'On hands and knees' is a known thing (especially for someone in a confined space, or doing something on the floor). 'Hands and buttocks' isn't, nor is 'hands and elbows'. I imagine there's no more to it than that.
Quote from: Duncan Head on August 13, 2018, 11:53:48 AM
Buttocks tend to be larger?
Picts tended to be smaller ... ;)
Nicholas essentially wonders - rightly, in my view - whether the knee is inference rather than reference. Eliminating other possibilities certainly helps to narrow the options, although I would not exclude a hot carbonised crucible as a candidate for having left the supposed 'knee' print.