I don't think we've had this thesis (https://www.academia.edu/26292605/Ante_bella_punica_Western_Mediterranean_Military_Development_350_264_BC?) before
"The contemporaneous development and transmission of similar military equipment across the western Mediterranean between the fifth and third centuries strongly suggests that a common military koine was in existence. "
Is this another way of saying Western Mediterranean Way of War? I haven't read it but the expansion of the Roman Republic is such an evergreen with members, some may be interested.
run for cover....! ;D
Quote from: Erpingham on December 06, 2020, 03:10:05 PM
Is this another way of saying Western Mediterranean Way of War?
He's clearly positing
a Western Mediterranean Way or War - I'm not sure if it's quite the same as the one we know and love. Or that some of us do - that debate largely preceded my engagement with the Society.
Anyway, skimming the introduction, this
koine centres on men armed with both javelins and close combat weapons (thrusting spears and swords), big oblong shields and relatively light body armour, who are capable of both skirmishing and close combat.
I'm not sure to what extent this
koine is supposed to to survive through the Punic Wars era. Certainly, some of the peoples involved eventually jettison parts of the equipment he describes as typical of it, adopting stuff like mail and long slashing swords.
Quote from: Erpingham on December 06, 2020, 03:10:05 PM
I don't think we've had this thesis (https://www.academia.edu/26292605/Ante_bella_punica_Western_Mediterranean_Military_Development_350_264_BC?) before
We have - The return of the Western Mediterranean Way of War (http://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=2653). The title of the thesis crops up in a few other threads as well.
I apologise for inflicting the pain all over again.
it is in all seriousness a useful debate but maybe done to death. Still always good to view stuff from time to time
To be fair to the author... he is not positing a western way of war in order to make a contrast with some other (eastern?) way of war.
Apologies to the author, but paraphrasing... his argument is that the surprising similarity of equipment suggests a similar way of waging war.
I am not sure how surprising similar equipment is to begin with. I can imagine many reasons for transmission and convergence.
And he doesn't really engage with the next question which is pretty obvious - if everyone had the same equipment, and used it the same way, why was military success so unevenly distributed?
QuoteTo be fair to the author... he is not positing a western way of war in order to make a contrast with some other (eastern?) way of war.
And, we should recall, Western Mediterranean Way of War was a humourous play on the deadly serious Western Way of War. Paul McDonnell-Staff was not suggesting any deep political meaning, just that everyone in the Western Mediterranean seemed to end up using a similar weapons set (Two throwing/thrusting spears, a long shield and a sword), whereas in the Eastern Mediterranean they stuck with a different set of weapons (A thrusting spear, a big round shield and a sword). The big controversy came when discussing how this common panoply was used and, indeed, whether everyone used it the same.