Recent Posts

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 10
1
Weapons and Tactics / Re: Wielding a sarissa overarm
« Last post by PMBardunias on Today at 08:25:43 PM »
Just a quick reply to some comments above.  I taper my dory by rotating it up against a vertical sanding belt and using ring gauges, but they probably shaved them down.  There is a reason that the little curved knives Spartans carried as boys are called xuele, from the root word of wood. 

If you are shaving a long straight tree, then by simply following the grain lines you get a natural taper, since the tree and the heartwood taper.  But you get one spear per tree.

Dory shafts were probably coppiced, which is a means of growing nice straight shafts, but takes a bit of investment. 

Patrick, I agree that we can reconcile the two Iphicratid accounts in this manner.  Also, if the common sword in use for hoplites was what Xenophon calls an enchiridion at Coronea, then it would have been a very short xipohos, so doubling it does not give some new long sword, but the older style, medium length xiphos which was perhaps still used by cavalry when not using a khopis.

I am not sure that symmetrical pelta need indicate a two handed grip.  As I said I think there is good reason to doubt it, and we see images of thracians with long one handed spears and peltae, and read of Egyptians who do not use two hands.  That said, renaissance partisan moves fluidly between one and two handed grips, so I do not rule out that it occurred.
2
Weapons and Tactics / Re: Wielding a sarissa overarm
« Last post by Patrick Waterson on Today at 06:21:48 PM »
We might note though that a lance and a pike are at different ends of the quality and difficulty line.

Agreed - the Macedonian pike would have been much more of a craftsman's product, not least because it was probably intended to last a lifetime.  Whether this would merit a lathe rather than extended spokeshave treatment is another question, although when you have a 21' or so length of wood to work with, a lathe would, as Mick points out, make life a lot simpler.
3
Weapons and Tactics / Re: Wielding a sarissa overarm
« Last post by Erpingham on Today at 12:18:53 PM »
Quote
Presumably ECW reenactors know how to make pikes?

But probably not from scratch - you can get long rounded poles these days from an industrial supplier.

Add : Found this discussion on MyArmoury.  OK, much use of power tools but the basics are probably similar.  Note incidentally that the project the pictures are of seems to be a two-part sarissa, complete with tube but no obvious counter weight.
4
Weapons and Tactics / Re: Wielding a sarissa overarm
« Last post by RichT on Today at 11:53:15 AM »
But we are talking about sarissai aren't we, not jousting lances? If we are talking about jousting lances then sure, lathes - look at the handle shape, look at the thickness of the wood.

Edit - cross post with Anthony.

Presumably ECW reenactors know how to make pikes?
5
Weapons and Tactics / Re: Wielding a sarissa overarm
« Last post by Erpingham on Today at 11:49:57 AM »
I think we are agreeing on lance lathes in the late Middle Ages, mainly for the obvious reason we have evidence of their existence.  But much as I would love a discussion of medieval lances, they are perhaps a red herring, as they aren't even period pikes and their complex shape lends itself to lathe turning. 
6
Weapons and Tactics / Re: Wielding a sarissa overarm
« Last post by Justin Swanton on Today at 11:09:02 AM »
Yes I've always understood spears were made with a spokeshave (or equivalent). A lathe is good when you have a complex shape like a chair leg or the handle of a jousting lance, but isn't necessary for a simple straight (or tapered) spear. Turning anything with bend in it (like a pike) on a lathe would be tricky.

To quote from the Knights of Iron re-enactment group: "Once we settled on a wood we had to develop the machines. Again, we took cues from historical lance lathes. Our machinery is really just high tech versions of what was used 500 years ago. In fact our lance lathes are largely based on images of lance lathes from the period."
7
Weapons and Tactics / Re: Wielding a sarissa overarm
« Last post by RichT on Today at 10:43:02 AM »
Yes I've always understood spears were made with a spokeshave (or equivalent). A lathe is good when you have a complex shape like a chair leg or the handle of a jousting lance, but isn't necessary for a simple straight (or tapered) spear. Turning anything with bend in it (like a pike) on a lathe would be tricky.
8
Weapons and Tactics / Re: Wielding a sarissa overarm
« Last post by Erpingham on Today at 10:05:50 AM »


I suspect a lance lathe would be the same as a pole lathe but you'd probably have a number of apprentices working on it at once, and they'd each have a 'stand' supporting the lance

Certainly possible.  Given the period (Late 15th-16th century) its also possible these were in workshops driven by water power.  We might note though that a lance and a pike are at different ends of the quality and difficulty line.  Look at a renaissance lance and you can see why it needed turning on a lathe.  It maybe that making more straightforward things like 5m pikes was done by gangs of apprentices roughly shaping square dowels with axes, followed by skilled craftsmen finishing them with draw knives or similar.

9
Weapons and Tactics / Re: Wielding a sarissa overarm
« Last post by Jim Webster on Today at 09:13:36 AM »
Has anyone tracked a picture of lance lathe yet?  Pole lathes are great but, like the ones in the video, they are usually seen working on things about the size of a chair leg.  We need to envision a lathe that can handle something five or six metres long.

I remember them talking about the really big lathe they had in the shipyard here for working on the barrels of the big guns. Apparently at the lengths they were talking, even a steel barrel needs a lot of supports as you work on it lest it sag.

I suspect a lance lathe would be the same as a pole lathe but you'd probably have a number of apprentices working on it at once, and they'd each have a 'stand' supporting the lance
10
Weapons and Tactics / Re: Wielding a sarissa overarm
« Last post by Erpingham on Today at 08:29:12 AM »
Has anyone tracked a picture of lance lathe yet?  Pole lathes are great but, like the ones in the video, they are usually seen working on things about the size of a chair leg.  We need to envision a lathe that can handle something five or six metres long.
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 10