A bibliography for "Arthurian"/Dark Age Britain 5-7th Centuries?

[Imperial Dave]

In amongst all the reading and cross referencing I have been doing recently for a battle in 7th Century Wales, I have inadvertantly strayed back into Dark Age Britain and in particular the "Arthurian" period and all it entails!

What I am keen to find out from others who have done a similar exercise is to see what books, treatises and the like they have found useful or at least not blindingly biased and disappointing! Unfortunately I have come across such a huge number of "popular" histories as well as more academic ones and sometimes it nice to get an opinion from others.....

For mine own I have looked (read) at the following:

Edwin Pace - Arthur and The Fall of Britain
Christopher Gidlow - The Reign of Arthur
Leslie Alcock - Arthur's Britain
Mike Ashley - The Mammoth Book of King Arthur
Geoffrey Ashe - The Quest for Arturs Britain
JNL Myres - The English Settlements
HPR Finberg - The Formation of England
Michael Jones - The End of Roman Britain
Michael Wood - In Search of The Dark Ages
John Morris - The Age of Arthur
Christopher Snyder - An Age of Tyrants
Francis Prior - Britain AD
Jeffrey Gantz - The Mabinogian


I have left out Gildas, Nennius, Bede etc as they are the "defacto" sources that most will read before plunging on into interpretation works as per the above! I feel a bit like Nennius making a heap of all I could find and I know that some of the above are fanciful in their conclusions but reading around a subject with an open mind quite often helps. I would just like to see if anyone has any other recommendations they care to mention or indeed opinion on any of the already mentioned books above?

[Erpingham]

Isn't Mike Ashley's book a collection of short stories?

[Imperial Dave]

Hi Anthony,

its more a case of chapters on aspects of "Arthurian" history that he has stitched together. He himself acknowledges that he is "doing a Nennius" but the book is well written and does try to stay away from being too blinkered. I quite enjoyed it

[Sharur]

Having spent decades either tinkering around the edges of, or occasionally plunging more directly into, "The Matter of Britain", or Arthuriana, it's fair to say there's a lot of dross about on the subject, Dave. I've read/skimmed through most of the items on your list at one time or another, and wouldn't go back to any for serious "historical" research. Morris's "Age of Arthur's" best use is as a door-stop, for example, as its accuracy is marginally worse than Geoffrey of Monmouth...

The only historically-based materials I've kept going back to over the years in this field, aside from the original sources (including some of the later medieval Welsh ones, where those more probably preserve elements from the lost north British originals, at least), have tended to be those by Guy Halsall, who I've long found to have the most sensibly pragmatic attitude of any of the more modern "historical" commentators (most recently his "Worlds of Arthur", OUP, 2013), though Geoffrey Ashe's works can be excellent for a comparison between the more "historical" and "mythical" sources. I still keep going back to his "Mythology of the British Isles" (Methuen, 1990), whenever I can't remember the source of a particular person or incident.

There are other useful works, but many are from a more specialist folklore perspective, and a lot are scattered across academic, and some less-so, journals that are often difficult to find or access freely online still.

My only real "advice", for what it's worth, would be to concentrate on a specific topic or aspect when approaching matters Arthurian, as it's appallingly easy to get sidetracked from what you intended as soon as you set off that way.

[Justin Swanton]

I found there is so little reliable source material that trying even to establish what kind of world Arthur lived in is up for speculation. What degree of societal anarchy was there? To what extent did Roman economic and administrative structures survive, if at all, and to what extent did the traditional tribal groupings replace them? The local kinglets/warlords - to what extent did they work independently of / against / with each other? What precisely was the role of the Saxons in all this confusion? What exactly did Arthur's title 'Dux Bellorum' make him? Where did Vortigern and Ambrosius (or rather the Ambrosii) fit in?

Trying to work out what what happening in 5th century Gaul was tough enough. I gave up on Britain. 

[Imperial Dave]

Having spent decades either tinkering around the edges of, or occasionally plunging more directly into, "The Matter of Britain", or Arthuriana, it's fair to say there's a lot of dross about on the subject, Dave. I've read/skimmed through most of the items on your list at one time or another, and wouldn't go back to any for serious "historical" research. Morris's "Age of Arthur's" best use is as a door-stop, for example, as its accuracy is marginally worse than Geoffrey of Monmouth...

Agreed, especially re Morris. I also tinker and occasionally plunge but always extricate myself before my brain implodes

The only historically-based materials I've kept going back to over the years in this field, aside from the original sources (including some of the later medieval Welsh ones, where those more probably preserve elements from the lost north British originals, at least), have tended to be those by Guy Halsall, who I've long found to have the most sensibly pragmatic attitude of any of the more modern "historical" commentators (most recently his "Worlds of Arthur", OUP, 2013), though Geoffrey Ashe's works can be excellent for a comparison between the more "historical" and "mythical" sources. I still keep going back to his "Mythology of the British Isles" (Methuen, 1990), whenever I can't remember the source of a particular person or incident.

Yes, I quite like Guy Halsall as well although his online ding-dongs with other authors are almost as entertaining as his writing! I dip in and out of Ashe for similar reasons as you in terms of Quest and I may have a copy of Mythology beried somewhere....I'll go and have a look!

There are other useful works, but many are from a more specialist folklore perspective, and a lot are scattered across academic, and some less-so, journals that are often difficult to find or access freely online still.

My only real "advice", for what it's worth, would be to concentrate on a specific topic or aspect when approaching matters Arthurian, as it's appallingly easy to get sidetracked from what you intended as soon as you set off that way.

Agreed although I was doing just that and got sucked back into the general background stuff! 

[Imperial Dave]

I found there is so little reliable source material that trying even to establish what kind of world Arthur lived in is up for speculation. What degree of societal anarchy was there? To what extent did Roman economic and administrative structures survive, if at all, and to what extent did the traditional tribal groupings replace them? The local kinglets/warlords - to what extent did they work independently of / against / with each other? What precisely was the role of the Saxons in all this confusion? What exactly did Arthur's title 'Dux Bellorum' make him? Where did Vortigern and Ambrosius (or rather the Ambrosii) fit in?

Trying to work out what what happening in 5th century Gaul was tough enough. I gave up on Britain. 

I'm what Arthurian researchers would call a "floater". I am not convinced either way re Arthur although in terms of the traditional (dark age) view I am more on the sceptical side. I am trying to look at the evidence (written, archaeological etc) for the general backdrop of events in Britain 5-7th Century but am not "looking for Arthur". Years ago when I was more inclined that way I would spend hours pouring over maps and primary/secondary sources to try and link things together for a historical Arthur. Its amazing what you can find that way and I even stitched together a series of Nennian battlesites that were fairly original. However these days I prefer to look at the holistic view and try to piece together a coherent "story"

I am interested in looking at parallels where possible (eg Gaul) although this only helps so far and of course in generally accepted as being divergently different in terms of politics, villas, money etc.

[Duncan Head]

I enjoyed Stephen Evans, The Lords of Battle: Image and Reality of the Comitatus in Dark-Age Britain.

[Imperial Dave]

Thanks Duncan, I'll look that one up

[Jim Webster]

Thanks Duncan, I'll look that one up

do, it's worth it :-)

Jim

[Imperial Dave]

got it and currently reading

Very good so far 

[gavindbm]

Not yet mentioned but in my bookcase are:

Ken Dark - Britain and the End of the Roman Empire
Roger White - Britannia Prima, Britain's Last Roman Province

Ken Dark's book focuses on archaeology and what can infer from that about state of various parts of Britain.
Not sure if I have read Roger White's ...

Thanks for starting the list...it is an interesting topic.

[Imperial Dave]

no problem Gavin and thanks for the books you mentioned...I've not come across those before

[Sharur]

Not a book as such, but a modest-length discussion-review of two others, and from 2007, but worth a look, particularly in regard to the discussion elsewhere on the Forum regarding John Koch's Cunedda, Cynan, Cadwallon, Cynddylan, and the changing approach to the earlier British sources generally: http://www.heroicage.org/issues/10/forum.html , entitled The Historicity and Historiography of Arthur: A critical review of King Arthur: Myth-Making and History by N. Higham, and The Reign of Arthur: From History to Legend by C. Gidlow, by Howard Wiseman. Seems a slow, cautious shift back towards there having been a genuine "Arthur" could be on the cards after all.

I stumbled across this by-chance, more or less twice, as having downloaded the page to read later, I'd forgotten about it till I was sorting through a host of other downloaded files over the weekend. And then I thought I might have found it from a link on the SoA Forum... If so, I can't find it now, so hopefully not just duplicating someone else's efforts here 

[Imperial Dave]

Good find Alastair and I am always on the lookout for as many balanced views on the general subject as possible. Must admit I have found "Lords of Battle" extremely readable and accessible and cant wait to get my teeth proper into Koch's C,C,C and C