PhD thesis on 8th Century Northumbria - interesting reading

[Imperial Dave]

https://lra.le.ac.uk/bitstream/2381/39990/1/2016_DaSilva_RR_PhD.pdf

very niche and specific but really enjoyed reading this....Northumbria being a bit of a hobby horse at the minute

[Anton]

Caedmon's case study seems to omit his likely ethnicity which happens now and then but probably lessens the impact of Bede's story. 

In the context of majoring in class interaction in early Northumbria, it's quite puzzling that the 'Welsh' are invisible.  A bit like writing about the class structure in the old South Africa without mentioning the proletariat were mainly black.  I find it an odd oversight not least because we get a fair bit of Wilfred who was actively engaged in a land seizing culture war against the British clergy. 

Do you think the author just doesn't know? 

[aligern]

It is indeed interesting that Northumbria is so powerful early on in the 'Conquest' . There cannot have been massive numbers of A/S involved . Northumbria is agriculturally poor ( OK, Bernicia rather than Deira) and the converse of its opportunistic positioning with possibilities of conquest to the North, West and South isvthat it is potentially beset by Mercians, Welsh, North Britons , Irish and Picts! Of course there is always a tension betwixt the two halves of the kingdom.
When they are invaded by Penda and co. surely they are completely outnumbered, but they manage to come back. If we conceive warfare in the period as mass then how do the Northumbrians manage to field large enough armies? If we see it as a matter of comitatus firces then surely the ability of their opponents to put together the households of many kings should have crushed them.

I take your point about the Britons, Stephen. Much Northumbrian territory is high land and very likely maintained a British identity and thus the kingdom must have depended to some extent on a deal with these inhabitants.

[Imperial Dave]

I think the author is dealing with the higher levels of society in Northumbria ie the 'English' elements and largely ignoring the lower levels ie the indigenous 'Welsh'. Having said that it does suggest itself that the author is not very familiar with the ethnicity/presence of 'non english' populations in Northumbria in the 8th C

[Anton]

It looks that way.  I confess I would have found it less of an irritant had the author not run through his Marxist credentials and his use of Gramsci.  Gramsci is well known, indeed admired, for his thoughts on ethnicity and cultural hegenomy- elite culture and social control sort of thing.  You might of thought he'd apply it to his subject.

You are right about the good land, apart from the valley bottoms and around Bamburgh farmers would do better with crops on the hoof.  The good arable land is where English root names predominate which is what we might expect. The elite languages of the Northumbrian court were English, Irish and Latin, the absence of Brythonic is striking.

The deal with the upland British seems to have been real enough.  However it did not enjoy universal support among the Northumbrian nobility.  When the faction that opposed it won out it was all down hill for the British as Bede tells us.

I'm interested in the end of Penda too, he went north east with the support of 30 sub kings.  It was clearly an elite expedition and it was irresistible. The Northumbrians got him on his way back after the bulk of his elite supporters had left him to head home.  Looking at Marwanad Cynddylan it reads like a well placed and timed ambush - even then the repetition of the phrase " The enormity of the sword fighting" suggests it was hard fought.

[Imperial Dave]

also this came to my attention

http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archiveDS/archiveDownload?t=arch-2301-1/dissemination/pdf/2003_ALCOCK_Kings_and_Warriors.pdf

[Anton]

Great find and thank you, that's going to keep us busy.

[Imperial Dave]

no problem Anton....and yes will keep us busy a while!