Early German long spear tactics

[Duncan Head]

"Long spears and tactics of the Western Germans in the 1st century A.D. (according to Tacitus' description)" - a moderately interesting article from the 2016 Gladius at http://gladius.revistas.csic.es/index.php/gladius/article/viewFile/287/290

I did think of posting this to the Heavy Infantry Density thread, but there is not much specific discussion of space-per-man apart from an assumption that:

Apparently they did not create into a very close formation like a phalanx-there was room for action with a pike since the German warrior was an individual fighter and no warrior in a close-formed phalanx

Still, it's nice to see almost anything on "barbarian" tactics.

[Mark G]

Does seem to be directly contradicted by sources on germans fighting in dense formations, and aside from heroes from Dorne, it begs the question of how you fight individually with a long spear, does it not?


I look forward to reading it for answers

[Erpingham]

It is a bit unclear why the author thinks these long spears were only used individually, especially when we know from elsewhere that the Germans were capable of forming dense formations.

It shouldn't be difficult to imagine someone fighting single handed with a 2-3m spear and a shield.  Greek hoplites seem to have got on well enough.  Although the effect here might be more like Byzantines with their long spears and big shields in a foulkon.  One difference being that the Byzantines usually had several ranks of spearmen before the archers and javelin throwers.

[Duncan Head]

I am uncertain when the author thinks the spearmen did not use "a very close formation like a phalanx", just how close a formation he is ruling out. Perhaps two cubits is fine, but he means to exclude a one-cubit formation ?

I don't think that the sources ever tell us how long these "long spears" are. Germanic spearshafts from Nydam, which are admittedly a bit later than Tacitus (C 3AD?), are between 2.52 and 3.54 metres (about 8-11 feet). Hoplite spears were at the short end of this range, but I'd have thought that the spears of the Cherusci and their neighbours would have had to be at the long end of this range, or longer, to count as "hastae ingentes" to a Roman observer.

[aligern]

Its good to see that they have a German style of warfare rather than a 'Western' style.  I recall that the Germans threw very large numbers of missiles including those shafts hardened to a point in the fire. That indicates a metal-poor society and that they were atrempting to overwhelm an enemy. presumably pressuring from the front with a long spear at the same time as a mass f missiles is flying in over the top of the shieldwall.The German shield looks  like a Celtic shield with a central recessed, grip. That does not look ideal for two handed use, so we should assume that the spear is wielded  single handed, presumably  overarm? That's going to be much easier than underarm when using large shields.
If the Germans are only kitted with a long spear then they will have a real problem against Romans who can catch the spearhead, or chop it off and then move in down the shaft, unless either the next German in line can reach the Roman with his spear, or the spearman has a secondary weapon?
Interesting article,nthough I felt it lacked some chunky quotes on the actual battles and some comparisons between them.
R

[Anton]

Does seem to be directly contradicted by sources on germans fighting in dense formations, and aside from heroes from Dorne, it begs the question of how you fight individually with a long spear, does it not?


I look forward to reading it for answers

Not our period but I think it may shed some light.  A captured Tai Ping General incited his captors to bring him 12 Imperial soldiers whom he would then kill with his spear in the ensuing fight.  The Tai Ping spear was about 12 feet in length.  The Imperials would presumably be armed with the usual mixture of swords and shields or spears or halberds.  His listeners, who all had experience of war in China, didn't take him up on it but don't seem to have doubted his ability to do so and thought it worthwhile to record the episode.

[Mark G]

Did they murder his sister?

I forget the rest.

More seriously, the point was to differentiate between a single warrior dancing around, and a formation.

Individual long spear fighting in a formation seems oxymoronic., and contrary to what sources we have of Germanic fighting until the middle ages.

[Erpingham]

On individual fighting with the long spear, the 16th century fight tutor George Silver thought 8-9ft was the ideal length for a staff weapon in individual combat, though he would expect it to be used in both hands.  Larger pikes couldn't be handled fast enough to avoid opponents getting inside their reach, if I recall. 

Most of the "big shield + spear" combos I can think of were formation fighters.  The one that isn't is the "Homeric" warrior with his tower or figure-of-eight shield and big spear.  This was used two-handed and the shield was held on a strap.  Perhaps this is in the author's mind? 

[Anton]

Did they murder his sister?

I forget the rest.

More seriously, the point was to differentiate between a single warrior dancing around, and a formation.

Individual long spear fighting in a formation seems oxymoronic., and contrary to what sources we have of Germanic fighting until the middle ages.

No mention of a sister that I recall.  I was just responding to your question of how you fight individually with a long spear with an example of someone who knew how .

[aligern]

I think we can be happy that Early Germans fought in formation .
I wonder if the long spears are the favoured weapon of particular tribes and that others are equipped with javelin and a shorter spear?
There is one other German spear combination,nwhich is mentioned by Speidel and that is his Cannenfatian spear. This was, IIRC a heavy spear for horsemen?
Roy

[Mark G]

I got that.  It seems you missed the references to a popular fantasy tv show which featured a spearman dueling with a knight over the murder if his sister.

Your gain, I think.