East Indian Sarissaphoroi

[PMBardunias]

We have had a few discussions of shields use and sarissaphoroi. I happened upon this image of Apatani warriors. They are from the far east section of India, where it borders China and Myanmar. It is unclear how ubiquitous the pikes are in the region, because there are other images of them dancing with shorter spears. I thought they might be of interest, especially with the shields.

[Duncan Head]

There's a blog run apparently by an Apatani exploring their traditional culture. He has an entry on spears, but only talks about shorter types than those in that photo:

Some are quite short, only around 1,5 meter long, but other are said to be as long as 2.30 meters. Longer types are called iidan-danso ('long spear') or simply danso.

from https://savetanii.blogspot.com/2008/06/apatani-weapons-of-olden-days-2-spears.html

[Erpingham]

This (from the same blog) has more on how the shield was used with a spear, and a useful image of a modern warrior showing how the shield was slung.  Incidentally, although it looks like he has a javelin, other angles show this is actually a long spear, held quite near the point.  How that works, I don't know - we'd need some video, I suspect.

[Patrick Waterson]

Incidentally, although it looks like he has a javelin, other angles show this is actually a long spear, held quite near the point.  How that works, I don't know - we'd need some video, I suspect.

His left hand seems to be itching to get in on the act, making me wonder if he is holding the spear in a non-typical way simply to get the point into the camera.

On the assumption that the spear is carried upright as in Paul's photograph, the procedure for ending up holding it near the point when about to go into action would be quite tricky to execute, which is why I suspect the spear hold is contrived for the camera - a case of the observer influencing the event he perceives.  Holding the spear in more conventional long spear fashion would give that questing left hand something to do.

Just a thought.

[Erpingham]

Holding the spear in more conventional long spear fashion would give that questing left hand something to do.

If you look at the reverse angle shot (it's in the blog Duncan linked) you will see that he uses both hands.  The point (no pun etc) was that he holds it well in advance of what should be the balance point.  As he is demonstrating to tourists, he could indeed be confined by space.  More images of warlike posturing of a more anthropological nature would be useful.

[PMBardunias]

There's a blog run apparently by an Apatani exploring their traditional culture. He has an entry on spears, but only talks about shorter types than those in that photo:

Some are quite short, only around 1,5 meter long, but other are said to be as long as 2.30 meters. Longer types are called iidan-danso ('long spear') or simply danso.

from https://savetanii.blogspot.com/2008/06/apatani-weapons-of-olden-days-2-spears.html

The shield's grip system looks like a medieval type with a neck strap and a grip in one corner, see below.

[PMBardunias]

This (from the same blog) has more on how the shield was used with a spear, and a useful image of a modern warrior showing how the shield was slung.  Incidentally, although it looks like he has a javelin, other angles show this is actually a long spear, held quite near the point.  How that works, I don't know - we'd need some video, I suspect.

Many long spear were held near the point.  They were probably held this way because they were used to throw or gig (throw, but grab again by the shaft before it clears the hand if your strike misses).  Here you can see some in Philipine use. Note the large spear head requires a long extension behind the hand to balance.  They are balanced exactly the opposite of classical dorys.

[Patrick Waterson]

Many long spears were held near the point.  They were probably held this way because they were used to throw or gig (throw, but grab again by the shaft before it clears the hand if your strike misses).  Here you can see some in Philipine use. Note the large spear head requires a long extension behind the hand to balance.  They are balanced exactly the opposite of classical dorys.

Interesting, and perhaps on the way to becoming more assegai-like weapons once the users develop a taste for decisive close combat.

The shields, although suitably round, seem to have a handle arrangement which precludes using the spear two-handed.

[Patrick Waterson]

If you look at the reverse angle shot (it's in the blog Duncan linked) you will see that he uses both hands.  The point (no pun etc) was that he holds it well in advance of what should be the balance point.  As he is demonstrating to tourists, he could indeed be confined by space.  More images of warlike posturing of a more anthropological nature would be useful.

True.  I suspect that a two-handed grip ahead of the point of balance would not be very practical in action; would anyone know?

[Justin Swanton]

This (from the same blog) has more on how the shield was used with a spear, and a useful image of a modern warrior showing how the shield was slung.  Incidentally, although it looks like he has a javelin, other angles show this is actually a long spear, held quite near the point.  How that works, I don't know - we'd need some video, I suspect.

Notice that he is not using the corner handgrip and that the shield of the third photo is different from that of the first two - different strap. He seems to have an armgrip near the centre of the shield in the third photo, a bit like a telamon (if he didn't the shield would fall forwards).

[PMBardunias]

This (from the same blog) has more on how the shield was used with a spear, and a useful image of a modern warrior showing how the shield was slung.  Incidentally, although it looks like he has a javelin, other angles show this is actually a long spear, held quite near the point.  How that works, I don't know - we'd need some video, I suspect.

Notice that he is not using the corner handgrip and that the shield of the third photo is different from that of the first two - different strap. He seems to have an armgrip near the centre of the shield in the third photo, a bit like a telamon (if he didn't the shield would fall forwards).

Take another look.  I think you are mistaking the white shell? strap for the shield strap.  It is not, there is a leather cord of the same type as in the other images.  There is no arm band, the shield just hangs from the shoulder strap.

[Justin Swanton]

This (from the same blog) has more on how the shield was used with a spear, and a useful image of a modern warrior showing how the shield was slung.  Incidentally, although it looks like he has a javelin, other angles show this is actually a long spear, held quite near the point.  How that works, I don't know - we'd need some video, I suspect.

Notice that he is not using the corner handgrip and that the shield of the third photo is different from that of the first two - different strap. He seems to have an armgrip near the centre of the shield in the third photo, a bit like a telamon (if he didn't the shield would fall forwards).

Take another look.  I think you are mistaking the white shell? strap for the shield strap.  It is not, there is a leather cord of the same type as in the other images.  There is no arm band, the shield just hangs from the shoulder strap.

Here's my point: the strap holds the shield at the bottom (yellow arrow). The man is not holding the corner hand strap. Force of gravity will make the shield fall forwards from the strap (red arrow). The shield is very close to the left elbow and there is evidently something fastening it to that point (orange arrow) which is hidden by the spear shaft.

[Erpingham]

Take another look.  I think you are mistaking the white shell? strap for the shield strap.  It is not, there is a leather cord of the same type as in the other images.  There is no arm band, the shield just hangs from the shoulder strap.

The white shell strap is actually a sword baldric.


The shield strap is a much thinner dark cord that runs across the man's chest.  I was struck by how thin it is - almost a string rather than a strap.  Obviously the shield is very light but I would think that strap would be very vulnerable to snapping in close combat, which may imply a fencing-style use of the spear rather than a close order phalanx.

[Justin Swanton]

Take another look.  I think you are mistaking the white shell? strap for the shield strap.  It is not, there is a leather cord of the same type as in the other images.  There is no arm band, the shield just hangs from the shoulder strap.

The white shell strap is actually a sword baldric.


The shield strap is a much thinner dark cord that runs across the man's chest.  I was struck by how thin it is - almost a string rather than a strap.  Obviously the shield is very light but I would think that strap would be very vulnerable to snapping in close combat, which may imply a fencing-style use of the spear rather than a close order phalanx.

Oh, right. I'm still wondering what keeps the shield upright if the strap is fastened to the bottom as per the other photos.

[Erpingham]

Oh, right. I'm still wondering what keeps the shield upright if the strap is fastened to the bottom as per the other photos.

It seems to me that the shield strap in this picture, if we follow its line, actually attaches higher on the shield, somewhere a bit below your orange arrow, if that's any help.