Wars of the Roses Men at Arms Mounted or foot?

[Dave Knight]

My understanding is that generally men at arms fought on foot.

What are the thoughts on a battle like Wakefield where York rode out of Sandal castle to attack the Lancastrians?

Is the concept of an initial cavalry charge followed by a quick dismount to fight on foot feasible?

[Erpingham]

The trouble with Wakefield is lack of clarity over what happened.  Some see it as an ambush, which might allow for some mounted action.  But riding out would be a perfectly normal way to approach a battlefield, giving time to dismount, send the horses to the rear, take the pollaxe off the page and form up.

[Dave Knight]

What about Richard at Bosworth? 

[Erpingham]

What about Richard at Bosworth?

I would think Richard would have  to be mounted for the reported clash between their bodyguards to be possible.  I can't see how Richard would be mobile enough on foot to intercept Henry.

[Nick Harbud]

As generals, both Richard and Henry would need to be mounted.

I remember a talk given by a member of the Sealed Knot re-enactment society who explained that generals on foot have no control over their horse due to the latter moving away faster than the great man can run after them.

[Dave Knight]

I don't really think of Wars of the Roses generals having much by way of command once the battle has started.  The ones tat fought like Edward IV for instance seem to have led by example in or very near to the fighting itself

[Erpingham]

I suspect that the issue that the army would view a commander on a horse as lacking confidence and preparing for a quick getaway, leaving them in the lurch, was a counter force to this argument.  I think Commines said that Edward IV won all his battles on foot, and Warwick was killed trying to reach his horse at Barnet.

[Nick Harbud]

FWIW, at the Battle of Tewkesbury, after his own command was routed, Somerset is said to have "galloped up to Wenlock, commanding the centre, and demanded to know why Wenlock had failed to support him."  Presumably he did so whilst mounted.

Incidentally, Somerset was evidently very upset - he dashed out Wenlock's brains with a battleaxe before he was able to answer. 

[Erpingham]

Incidentally, Somerset was evidently very upset - he dashed out Wenlock's brains with a battleaxe before he was able to answer. 

Which led Brig Peter Young to comment

"History records no more summary dismissal of a divisional commander"

Somerset could, of course, have retrieved his horse from a page in order to retreat. But it is certainly possible that , if some commanders made a point of fighting on foot, others didn't - if everyone did it, it wouldn't be worthy of comment.

[yesthatphil]

It looks like 'on this day in history' 24th July 1469, the Earl of Pembroke (William Herbert) opened the battle of Edgcote leading a cavalry charge to disperse Robin of Redesdale's Northern archers.  The battle went on most of the day, and Herbert's brother, Sir Richard Herbert, goes on to perform feats of arms with his polearm.

It is difficult to imagine William not there later, in the thick of it, as his brother(s) were, fighting on foot in the subsequent main phases of the battle (where both men were captured).

One imagines that Herbert charged the archers, more or less in the open as they harrassed his position on Edgcote Lodge hill, but was prevented from further success as they were driven back across the stream on Danesmoor, where they could make a stand.   The main phase of the battle ensues but contemporary accounts give us no 'nuts and bolts' with which to reconstruct the transitions.

Presumably Herbert's infantry come up, enabling the cavalry to withdraw.  At some point, the mounted men get of their horses and send the mounts away before rejoining the main fight.  Maybe this is 'phase 4'?  (1) archers attack (2) Herbert mounts up, charges them and chases them back to the stream (3) Robin's men make a stand on the river, forcing the cavalry to withdraw, which is easy enough as Herbert's foot arrived (4) Herbert and fighters dismount and rejoin the battle - this is the main phase of the fighting on Danesmoor.

In wargames terms, does this count as dismounting during the game?

There are further identifiable phases to this battle - which, indeed, seem to include a break for a meal 

There may be 3 cavalry charges, all told, in the Edgcote campaign (though it isn't clear whether - from source to source - some separate actions are in other sources rolled up into one narrative.  Nevertheless, I suspect there are more cavalry charges on the WotR battlefield than the traditional view implies).