Battle of Blackheath 1497

[Dave Knight]

Or Deptford Bridge if you prefer

I haven't been able to find much beyond wikkpedia for this and it has two possibly conflicting statements

They (the rebels) also lacked the supporting cavalry and artillery arms.....

and

The Rebels were well enough prepared to have positioned guns and archers....

So unless they had guns which were not considered to be artillery there is an issue

My personal thought was that rebel handgunners seem unlikely but them acquiring some artillery pieces was more of a possibility.

Any thoughts on that or any better sources to go to would be appreciated

[Martin Smith]

One for Denis G. ?

[Duncan Head]

Not much help, but:

35. Meanwhile the Cornishmen left Wells, where they had happily accepted James Lord Touchet as their commander. First they came to Salisbury, then Winchester, and finally to Kent, hoping that the common folk of that shire would easily join their alliance. They were greatly mistaken. For Earl George of Kent was swift in being up in arms, and likewise George Lord Burgenne, John de la Pole Lord Cobham, Thomas Bourchier, Edward Poinings, Richard Gilford, William Scott, James Cromer, John Peche, John Darell, Henry Wyatt, Richard Haulte, John Fogge, and others devoted to protecting their nation from all mischiefmaking and to holding the people to their duty. And the Kentishmen, partly mindful how their uprisings had previously harmed them, and partly restrained by the watchful eyes of their nobles, were so far from being willing to join the mob that they had already avoided having any contact or conversation with them, so that they would fall under no suspicion with the king. This thing so deflated the spirits of the cowardly throng at immediately thereafter no small number of them lost their enthusiasm and, furtively stealing away by night, went home. And the leaders of the mob, seeing they were making no impression at all on the Kentishmen, relied on their strength and led the entire throng to a hill near London called Blackheath. Encamping on the flat space atop the hill, they ordered their followers to arm themselves so they could come to blows with the king if he should come to meet them, or else to attack the city. For they imagined that the king was panic-stricken and that thus far he had not dared think about coming to meet them. And therefore with higher spirits, as if full of certainty of victory, they decided to invade the city in which the king had shut himself up. But Henry, quite the contrary to what they thought, acted as he did because he had deliberately refused to oppose the mob, so that he might suddenly surround it more safely when it was far home, from where it would have no hope of support, be wearied by its lengthy march, and, its rage all but wholly subsided, would already be regretting its rashness. Meanwhile fear mounted hourly within the city, the alarm was sounded in every ward, men came running to the gates, and likewise the watch and ward was wonderfully maintained lest by chance that mob of paupers might suddenly descend on them to get within the walls and steal the townsmen's wealth. Thus by royal command, and thanks to the effort, care, and wisdom of John Tate, the Lord Mayor, and the Sheriffs John Shaw and Richard Haddon, the city was defended, armed, and ready to defend itself against any sudden incursions and assaults by the mob. Then the king quickly relieved everybody of their fears, for when he learned the mob of Cornishmen were ready on the nearby hill, bent on a fight late in the day, he sent Henry Bourchier Earl of Essex and Richard Thomas Earl of Suffolk, excellent captains, with a great number of archers and horse to surround the hill to the left and right, so that they would block all the roads and deprive the enemy of all hope of escape. Afterwards he himself issued forth from the city with a very strong army, going against the hill, and he sent ahead Giles Daubney with a company of soldiers. When that man came to the hill, then the earls, together with Richard Thomas, attacked the enemy and routed them at their first collision. More than 2,000 were killed when they offered resistance, countless number were captured, including the leaders of the mob, who were executed shortly thereafter.

from http://www.philological.bham.ac.uk/polverg/26eng.html

[Erpingham]

Hall's version is similar , but includes a few extra details, including a preliminary skirmish at Deptford.  Artillery as far as I can tell are only mentioned on the king's side.  Plenty of mention of archery though.

[Dave Knight]

I have obtained a copy of Tudor Cornwall by AL Rowse and in it he states

At Deptford Srtand they (the rebels) placed a number of guns supported by archers to impede the passage of the river: a measure which 'wrought wonders' on the morrow, for there several of the King's spears were slain before the passage was taken.

He references Great Chronicle p277.

Any thoughts on what type of troops the King's spears might be ?

[Duncan Head]

"Spears" usually means men-at-arms. "The King's Spears" were a guards unit under Henry VIII, but perhaps not earlier.

Can't find the Great Chronicle online, but there is a version in modernized spelling for the reign of Henry VII, and searching it on Google Books for the word "Deptford" I find "That night the captains ordered their people how they should fight, and at Deptford Strand certain guns were laid, and a number of archers appointed to them who did wonders there during the morning before that crossingplace was won".

[Erpingham]

Any thoughts on what type of troops the King's spears might be

Almost certainly fully armoured men at arms, accompanied by custrelles.  Most English men-at-arms by this point served as demi-lances.

There are some useful snippets about English armies in 1497 here .  Available to read online under JSTOR's independent researcher sign up.

[Dave Knight]

I am not familiar with the term custrelle - lighter armed fighting men I presume?

[Erpingham]

I am not familiar with the term custrelle - lighter armed fighting men I presume?

Also spelled custrel.  English translation of the French "coustillier", a second combatant in a three man lance.  Coustilliers tended to be half armoured light lancers, so presumably the English ones were too.

[Erpingham]

"Spears" usually means men-at-arms. "The King's Spears" were a guards unit under Henry VIII, but perhaps not earlier.

Spotted something I'd missed before.

In Kay Lacey "The military organisation of the reign of Henry VII" (Harlaxton Medieval Studies VII, 1995) she says in 1492 , the Keeper of the Privy Purse bought "sphere, spherehedes and vamplates" for the kings guard.  These components of a cavalry lance can't have been for the yeomen archers of the guard, so this suggests to me they may have been for a body of men-at-arms in the guard at this date.

[Dave Knight]

Interesting - thanks