Looking for: Early (anglo-)Saxon wars information (King Penda, Offa, Welsh etc)

[Darthvegeta800]

With the time approaching to fill in my pledge for a 15mm Kickstarter.
And my buddy opting for early Vikings... I was planning to invest in some Romano Brittish and Saxons.

Saxons would mesh well with early Vikings was my logic. And they could overlap into fighting with some Romano Brittish.

That was the original plan.
However I have little to no 15mm scenery and budgetting is a bit tight due to a recent move.
So I'm considering going all in just on Saxons and a little Saxon village, dropping the Romano Brittish entirely.
I'm hoping to be able to split them into 2 forces useable for Dux Bellorum. (enough Saxon Kingdoms fought each other)

Now the lengthy explanation asside my question:

Are there any books you guys recommend with a focus on the military/political side of Saxon warfare up to the early viking raids?

I have a lot of generic books on the Anglo Saxons in the Dark Ages but the lack of sourcematerial seems to make it so that there are few ones focussed on warfare.

I am inclined to perhaps focus my own collection on the Mercian activities.
I got "Offa and the Mercian Wars" but I was hoping for something meatier.

Are there any books that focus also a lot on King Penda? His campaigns seem quite good to replay.
On amazon 3 books seemed interesting:

"Mercia: The Anglo-Saxon Kingdom of Central England by Sarah Zaluckyj"
and
"Mercia: The Rise and Fall of a Kingdom by Annie Whitehead"
and
"Warriors, Warlords and Saints: The Anglo-Saxon Kingdom of Mercia by John Hunt"

But i'm unsure just how good they are in discussing military matters.

I have some Osprey's too but those are mostly just good refreshers or starting points.


On a sidenote I also had a question for the experts:
My knowledge of the Welsh in the early Dark Ages is very limited.
They seem to be depicted either as having a lot of cavalry in rules (light and heavy (noble)) or little cavalry.
When it comes to for instance the period of (debatable) border warfare with King Offa's realm would they have much cavalry or not?
Or could I get away just fielding a lot of light infantry and skirmishers backed up by a unit of nobles (warlord + retinue)?

Besides other Saxons and the Welsh are there other likely foes you can think of for Mercia? Perhaps Irish raiders thrusting deep inland or something?

[Erpingham]

My knowledge of the Welsh in the early Dark Ages is very limited.
They seem to be depicted either as having a lot of cavalry in rules (light and heavy (noble)) or little cavalry.
When it comes to for instance the period of (debatable) border warfare with King Offa's realm would they have much cavalry or not?
Or could I get away just fielding a lot of light infantry and skirmishers backed up by a unit of nobles (warlord + retinue)?

To some extent, it depends on how you see the scale of warfare.  The size of forces that fought wars in this period is a bit controversial.  Some (e.g. the Bachrachs) see large infantry armies as the norm.  Others (e.g. Halsall) see warfare as largely fought out by small elites. The Welsh could field small armies entirely of cavalry. 

A useful "meaty" book on early Welsh warfare is Sean Davies War and Society in Medieval Wales 633-1283. 

[Darthvegeta800]

My knowledge of the Welsh in the early Dark Ages is very limited.
They seem to be depicted either as having a lot of cavalry in rules (light and heavy (noble)) or little cavalry.
When it comes to for instance the period of (debatable) border warfare with King Offa's realm would they have much cavalry or not?
Or could I get away just fielding a lot of light infantry and skirmishers backed up by a unit of nobles (warlord + retinue)?

To some extent, it depends on how you see the scale of warfare.  The size of forces that fought wars in this period is a bit controversial.  Some (e.g. the Bachrachs) see large infantry armies as the norm.  Others (e.g. Halsall) see warfare as largely fought out by small elites. The Welsh could field small armies entirely of cavalry. 

A useful "meaty" book on early Welsh warfare is Sean Davies War and Society in Medieval Wales 633-1283.

*nods*
Thanks for the feedback.

I remember reading somewhere that there 'may' also have been a difference between 'inland/highland' and 'frontier regions'. Inland/highland being more associated with having cav and the outer regions not. Any validity to this claim?

[aligern]

A coupke of recent books on the dikes of dark age England have transformed the view of warfare that ee might call Arthurian. There are many of these dikes, that were once defences and they can be used to track the advance of the A/S . Jim Storr's is one. It looks as though the English campaigned in a bite and hold manner, seizing land and then holding it whilst theyphey brought in settlers and absorbed it before moving on. Of course the Britons also used dikes to block the Angles advance. Storr gives quite a  good account of the Post Roman terrain. There were extensive marshes and forests that you would not want to try to take a firce through, particularly returning with booty which might well be cattle, and the dikes blocked the dry ground or high ground.
PaulHill's book on Alfred and Warfare is also very good.
I think there were three types of armies, king or sub king with comitatus...the English might well have been mounted, but bith English and Welsh would have been inefficient cavalry. Then the king or earldorman with local levy like the men who fought the Danes at Reading, then on a larger scale, the king plus earldormen all with their comitatus and a general levy of so many men per hide. Clearly, from the early days anglo sacon kings let out land in return for military service.
In the early pe4iod there might be some interesting contingents, fir example, the Swaffham villages in East Anglia are supposed to represent settlements of Swabians who presumably turned up as contingent. Perhaps they were merceneraies , settled by a king, lik e the earlier foederati supposedly settled hear Dorchester on Thames.
Roy

[Darthvegeta800]

Very interesting. I was unaware of the widespread use of the dikes. Was this approach used even up to Penda s time?

[aligern]

Sorry dykes!
Eric Grigg also has a book on them, he thinks in this article that tgey are mainly Britis, and he has a book out too. Storr IRRC emphasised Saxon use of tgem. Interestingly a lot of the measurements are Roman.

http://www.wansdyke21.org.uk/wansdyke/wanart/grigg.htm

Grigg in his book goes to some lengths to show that tge dykes are for military purposes. In the article he is more nuanced about possible uses as borders , tax points etc. One of the big differentiators is that if a dyke marks a border there shoukd be controlled crossing points and mostky therebjust aren't.

Again IRRC, Doesn't Penda attack Northumbria with an army that contains many allied leaders and thus appears to be many comitatuses together and thus an elite army. It is defeated finally by a Nirthumbrian army that sounds as though it can only be a small elite force. Perhaps the Nirthumbrians have more of a mass army? Oerhaps, attacked at a river crossing the elite Mercian force just panics?

[Darthvegeta800]

The period is certainly a massive hodgepodge of speculation. Limited and flawed sources, archaeological findings open to widely different interpretation. The period is both fascinating and frustrating to study!

[aligern]

Well at least a dyke with a palisade on top should be easy to make. It would provide a novel game as the raiders try to get across.
R

[Darthvegeta800]

Indeed.

[Duncan Head]

Have you looked at the earlier thread http://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=1456.0 ? There are a few book titles there.

[Darthvegeta800]

Have you looked at the earlier thread http://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=1456.0 ? There are a few book titles there.

Thanks.
Interestingly I have roughly half of those I think.
The pool must indeed be shallow...