Fatimid Sudanese Archers

[Anton]

I'm currently concentrating on the Crusades which got me thinking about the seeming ineffectiveness of the massed Fatimid foot archers.  The current thinking seems to be that their archery did not seriously erode the ability of the Frankish knights to charge home.  I'm wondering why?

It could be that the Sudanese didn't have an archery tradition prior to joining the Fatimid Army and so were just not very accurate shots.

On the other hand Christian Nubians who did have an archery tradition also served in the Fatimid army.  Perhaps they didn't serve as front line archers?

Frankish knights were very well protected but their horses weren't.  The charge was also delivered at speed which presumably helped minimise casualties.  All the same I'd have expected more dead horses.

There does not seem to have been a morale problem with the Sudanese troops so they did not run away before the opportunity to engage presented.

Any thoughts or theories gratefully received.

[Erpingham]

One obvious line of explanation is archery wasn't very effective against charging cavalry full stop.  Even massed late medieval longbows had a hard time stopping cavalry charging home , though they caused plenty of disruption and damage to expensive horseflesh.  If Fatimid archers had less powerful bows with lighter arrows (which may have been the case), were less well practised and were less confident, facing a charge unsupported in the open, they were dead meat.  A wise fatimid commander would presumably take steps to avoid this, other troops would bear the brunt and it would be them who did most of the charge facing.  But this is based on a limited knowledge of the actual tactics of the period - one of our Crusades specialists may have a better idea.

[Anton]

That's a very interesting point about less powerful bows and lighter arrows.  I wonder if that was the case.

[Duncan Head]

The Sudanese archers are a bit of a myth, according to the work Brendan Moyle did on the subject. See http://tabulaenovaeexercituum.pbworks.com/w/page/14246687/Fatimid%20Egyptian - I believe there was a Slingshot article at some point.

[Anton]

That certainly explains their lack of effectiveness!  Thanks for the link Duncan.  Some handy Berber info' there too.

[nikgaukroger]

William Hamblin's thesis on the Fatimid army can be useful - https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/handle/2027.42/160525

[Nick Harbud]

My understanding of the Fatimid Sudanese is that they formed up in mixed units of spearmen and archers.  Most wargames rules will make missile fire from such a combination less effective than from a unit that is entirely archers.

During the later Fatimid period, they also seem to have become increasingly 'bolshy' when it came to doing anything apart from drawing wages and carousing down the souk.  Indeed, in 1169 they revolted against Saladin.  He crushed them outside Cairo at the eponymous Battle of the Blacks, after which all surviving regiments were disbanded and the Sudanese expelled from Egypt.  Subsequently, some new Sudanese regiments were raised, but by this stage mounted troops had become the main arm of the Egyptian army.

[Anton]

Thanks Nik and Nick.

I've come across source references with the Sudanese being armed with javelins and flails and indeed a group of them advancing and attacking the Franks with archery, seemingly without close spear support.

I have four units of these fellows two and two as you might expect and armed as Nick suggests.  I'm now thinking the spear men would be better considered as melee troops with javelins.

They seem to have been expected to absorb the impact of the Frankish charge.  More often than not they didn't but on occasion they did once destroying two Frankish knightly units.  That seems to imply they were capable and motivated troops at least some of the time.