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The Vikings in Africa

Started by Imperial Dave, December 13, 2022, 07:05:41 PM

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Imperial Dave

Slingshot Editor

Swampster

Interesting.

The blue men could perhaps have been Tuaregs, though it seems that dark complexion was described as 'blár' which includes blue and black. Seems the same word was used for e.g. ravens.

Andreas Johansson

Quote from: Swampster on December 13, 2022, 08:25:41 PM
The blue men could perhaps have been Tuaregs, though it seems that dark complexion was described as 'blár' which includes blue and black. Seems the same word was used for e.g. ravens.
In modern Icelandic the word means black people. I don't think there's any reason to think it meant anything else in the Viking Age.
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Mick Hession

Quote from: Andreas Johansson on December 14, 2022, 06:14:10 AM
Quote from: Swampster on December 13, 2022, 08:25:41 PM
The blue men could perhaps have been Tuaregs, though it seems that dark complexion was described as 'blár' which includes blue and black. Seems the same word was used for e.g. ravens.
In modern Icelandic the word means black people. I don't think there's any reason to think it meant anything else in the Viking Age.

Also in Irish (medieval as well as modern).

Anton

An fir gorm, as Mick said.   I hadn't known about blar.  Interesting stuff.

Swampster

I gather that using 'svatr' for people tended to refer to hair colour. Again, I think Irish may be the same.

Anton


DougM

Quote from: Anton on December 14, 2022, 10:02:53 PM
Yes, dubh would be the word.

Same in Scots Gaelic- Dubh being dark or black.
"Let the great gods Mithra and Ahura help us, when the swords are loudly clashing, when the nostrils of the horses are a tremble,...  when the strings of the bows are whistling and sending off sharp arrows."  http://aleadodyssey.blogspot.com/

RichT

Hence Dubh Loch (or indeed Loch Dubh) in Scotland, for north-facing or shaded lakes. No relevance to current discussion, just happy memories of this year's holiday...

Imperial Dave

Slingshot Editor

DBS

I do remember a colleague, who had a diplomatic posting to Morocco, but was also accredited to Mauritania, telling me that the Mauritanians tended to be rather racist towards their Senegalese neighbours to the south, and used an epithet for black which was equivalent in English to the N word.  He observed that if all racism is irrational, then this particular manifestation was especially so, as many of the Mauritanians were in fact of a rather darker hue than their sub-Saharan neighbours...
David Stevens

Nick Harbud

#11
Historically, the cognomen 'black' can often refer simply to a swarthy demeanour, hair colour or someone whose character exudes a generally pessimistic view of humanity.  For example, Thomas Butler, 10th Earl of Ormand (Irish: Tomás Dubh de Buitléir), known as 'Black Thomas'.  Judge from his portrait how accurate this might be.

Portrait
Nick Harbud

DougM

The Black Douglas is probably the best known example. Ironically the Black, Black Stream/Water.
"Let the great gods Mithra and Ahura help us, when the swords are loudly clashing, when the nostrils of the horses are a tremble,...  when the strings of the bows are whistling and sending off sharp arrows."  http://aleadodyssey.blogspot.com/