Languages in Roman and Post Roman Britain

[Imperial Dave]

Thats a great link and very interesting Alastair.

One thing, and its probably me, but on occasion, some Northern accents (ie Cumbria/Northumberland) sound quite similar to some Welsh ones......?

[Erpingham]

Excellent stuff Alastair - the Durkin link was very good.  So, our Celtic input seems to be very limited in terms of loan words but seems to change the way basic verbs are used (to be, to do) perhaps relating to people adopting a new language?  A lot of Latin loans are technical to do with the Church but there are a lot of day to day words too.  However, a lot of those ordinary words look like specialist things which the original language needed to borrow a word for e.g. mats, vessels, boxes, architectural terms.  Don't know if that moves us on any?

[Jim Webster]

If I remember correctly, one of the few words Welsh picked up from Latin was for armour, they took the Latin Lorica
Also the Welsh word for church apparently comes from Latin

It strikes me that a lot of words are borrowed along with the thing being borrowed

Jim

[aligern]

Yes, Llurig and Eglwys for armour and church.

Roy

[Imperial Dave]

there's quite a few words that Welsh picked up from Latin

pont
ffwrwm
ffenestra

etc etc

Something like 600 odd words could be described to have come from Latin directly

[Erpingham]

Talking of weapon words, the Welsh for arrow, saeth, is from the Latin sagitta.

[Mark G]

Interesting that those reading families had been the same ones since mechanisation (or at least, one wave of it).

It contrasts the 3 generations theory of the time it takes a community to adapt to massive social change. 

[Jim Webster]

Interesting that those reading families had been the same ones since mechanisation (or at least, one wave of it).

It contrasts the 3 generations theory of the time it takes a community to adapt to massive social change.

It may be how they adapted to massive social change. Prior to mechanisation they may have been families who supplied casual/jobbing labour

Jim

[Owen]

there's quite a few words that Welsh picked up from Latin

pont
ffwrwm
ffenestra

etc etc

Something like 600 odd words could be described to have come from Latin directly

And names - Emrhys/Ambrosius, Tegid/Tacitus, Owen/Eugenius.  Always amused that the Welsh for danger - "perygl" - comes from Latin, suggesting they didn't know what danger was until the Romans arrived!

[Sharur]

One thing, and its probably me, but on occasion, some Northern accents (ie Cumbria/Northumberland) sound quite similar to some Welsh ones......?

I think you'd need to be a bit more specific here, Dave. North Northumberland has more of a southeastern Scottish accent than anything else to me, for instance, but it can be quite a mixture, and it may depend partly on what exactly you're listening for (speech patterns, or the general rhythm of the voice, for instance).

And most non-natives attempting a Welsh accent often come across as Indian/Pakistani, so what does that tell us 

[Imperial Dave]

ah, now there's another favourite thing of mine re names (ie transliterations from one language to another)

Maurice/Meurig
Theoderic/Tewdrig
Tribune/Tryphun

[Imperial Dave]

One thing, and its probably me, but on occasion, some Northern accents (ie Cumbria/Northumberland) sound quite similar to some Welsh ones......?

I think you'd need to be a bit more specific here, Dave. North Northumberland has more of a southeastern Scottish accent than anything else to me, for instance, but it can be quite a mixture, and it may depend partly on what exactly you're listening for (speech patterns, or the general rhythm of the voice, for instance).

And most non-natives attempting a Welsh accent often come across as Indian/Pakistani, so what does that tell us 

um...quite 

true re specificity oop north but to my Welsh ears, the Geordie accent sounds mightily close to a valleys lilt

[Patrick Waterson]

And most non-natives attempting a Welsh accent often come across as Indian/Pakistani, so what does that tell us 

Funnily enough, "Bombay Welsh" used to be an expression describing the effect of certain groups in the Indian subcontinent speaking English without having lost their native accent.

Not that this has anything to do with post-Roman Britain ...

[Justin Swanton]

When French contingents travelled to Scotland, as was occasionally the case under the Auld Alliance (Scotland and France), Scots would not have been able to tell northern and southern Frenchmen apart.  Hence, when giving acknowledgement or assent, both forms were given: oc and aye.

I think 'och' is just an interjection, comparable to 'oh'. It can equally be used to show disapproval - "Och, Dr Cameron..."

Interestingly enough, that is pretty much the use of 'ag' in Afrikaans (and Sah Theffricun Inglissh). It conveys surprise and irritation: "Ag mehn, thet's the nahnth tahm yoo've gotus lorst-ay."

[Jim Webster]

I remember hearing that South African English is descended from 16/17th century southern English (a more specific dialect than that) so I suppose it probably isn't all that surprising that the interjection (and a very useful interjection) has widespread use. 

Jim