What is the point of 16 ranks in a pike phalanx?

[Erpingham]

The main preoccupation of a phalangite in combat must have been hanging on to his sarissa whilst being shoved forwards by 15 chaps behind him. 

Which, of course, is why many reject the "scrum" interpretation of othismos. 

[Jim Webster]

The main preoccupation of a phalangite in combat must have been hanging on to his sarissa whilst being shoved forwards by 15 chaps behind him. 

Which, of course, is why many reject the "scrum" interpretation of othismos.

Because if you had another 15 chaps shoving their front rank from the opposite direction the line would probably buckle upwards, spitting file openers skywards. Frightfully bad for discipline 




Jim

[Andreas Johansson]

However, the bit "press forward those in front by the weight of their bodies" sounds an awful lot like actual physical pressure of rear ranks on anterior ones is meant.

What we need here is some "true" reenactment. I suggest soccer fans of rival clubs that are happy to accept any losses of life or limb as in the dual good cause of science and grievous bodily harm to the enemy.

[aligern]

Pressing forward would seem to work quite well in the situation I describe where the new rank 2 is between the original files rather than directly behind.
Roy

[Erpingham]

However, the bit "press forward those in front by the weight of their bodies" sounds an awful lot like actual physical pressure of rear ranks on anterior ones is meant.

Agreed, it does.  But would it work?  The first 5 ranks have to hold their pikes flat, rather than just push, so something more controlled than a Sealed Knot pike push is probably meant.  Controlled pressure, rather than a ram shoving the front ranks into a mincer.  You need the men at the front to keep their feet and you can't rely on the scrum/SK way of leaning on people being pushed in the opposite direction.  It is vitally important that whatever method was used didn't just leave a compacted, confused mass. 

[Patrick Waterson]

Broadly speaking, yes, it did work.  The devil is, as always, in the details, namely the precise nature of exactly what 'it' was.

Polybius' stipulation does suggest actual physical contact between the members of a file, probably of a shield-in-the-back nature.  One suspects that there was an optimum degree of force, somewhere between the hopeful pushing of a person anxious to get onto an already overcrowded train and the all-out 'grand slam' Anthony alludes to Sealed-Knot-wise and Jim portrays so vividly.

I rather like Andreas' suggestion about using soccer fans for reenactment.    Sadly they would need some training first, otherwise the results, although good for hospital staff practice, would not be very instructive.

[tobypartridge]

Although even if you are not actively pushing, if the front ranks give ground and the back ranks don't then you effectively end up pushing anyway. And the back ranks may have had this role of stopping the front ranks giving ground to easily.
The Polybian explanation of stopping missiles might almost work as well especially if the missiles are javelins or pila.
Plus if the subunit is 256 men, 16 ranks allows you to turn to face although you do then get a file of file leaders. Is turning to face in the military manuals though? Although they might reflect later, post Alexander drill with longer pikes that couldn't turn easily. Argument is rather circular though - why not have 8 deep units of 64 men? Are they 256 man units because they are 16 deep?

[Erpingham]

Although even if you are not actively pushing, if the front ranks give ground and the back ranks don't then you effectively end up pushing anyway. And the back ranks may have had this role of stopping the front ranks giving ground to easily.

It also works in advancing that the formation may not be pushing as it advanced but if the front was stopped, the continued forward movement of the rear ranks created a push forward.

The Polybian explanation of stopping missiles might almost work as well especially if the missiles are javelins or pila.

I remember long ago someone (Charles Grant senior?) trying to work out the arrow stopping powers of the massed pikes and concluded it wasn't that great, because the overall area of the pike shafts is small compared with the target area.  However, a mass of pikes may have had more chance of knocking a six foot missile off target than a shorter arrow.  I presume the intention would be to make the pila fall flat or tail first, so men would still be hit but not lethally.

[Imperial Dave]

I remember long ago someone (Charles Grant senior?) trying to work out the arrow stopping powers of the massed pikes and concluded it wasn't that great, because the overall area of the pike shafts is small compared with the target area.  However, a mass of pikes may have had more chance of knocking a six foot missile off target than a shorter arrow.  I presume the intention would be to make the pila fall flat or tail first, so men would still be hit but not lethally.

And dont forget that the pikes will be swaying independently and so more likely to intercept the pathway of any missile but more probably the pila/javelins you refer to

[Mark G]

Any contact with an incoming missile is going to take a lot if impact, and knock the trajectory such that few will hit point on.

[Patrick Waterson]

Polybius' word for 'missiles' in this context is 'belos', which apart from being a generalised missile word is also one used specifically to indicate heavy missiles like pila.  Given that he is discussing the legion against the phalanx, I have a feeling he intended it to be read this way.

[andrew881runner]

I think that doubling deepeness of the line could have a sense in  keeping ready reinforcements in case the guys in first lines are dead or wounded. Nothing more. Than is the meaning of deepening every kind of battle line. The deeper it is, the more you will have to fight to break it. Some phalanges deep 32 men are reported too. I think to remember in tolemaic kingdom

[Justin Swanton]

With a pike phalanx though if you are suffering sufficient casualties in the front ranks that substantial replacements are needed then the phalanx is probably falling apart in any case. If the formation is intact then nothing can reach the front ranks.

[andrew881runner]

this of the invincible phalanx if unbreakeble is only a myth. Many warriors were trained to sneak among pikes or crawl under them. This was the reason why they carried a sword and were trained to use it. A phalanx was not unbreakable, only tried to be. Its role was to keep enemies busy for some time while cavalry flanked or went in the back. this could not last to much though, since after a while soldiers get exhausted both physically and psychologically. There was no relief system like the Roman legion where guys in the front rows went back and guys in second row advanced. So all fighting relied on first rows which while being of the best soldiers, they could not last more than a while.
Then, let's not forget how weak phalanx was against missile fire. Mainly Small Shields, but even many rows of men pressed one to the others, made a pike phalanx ideal target for javelins or arrows. And yes shaking saris sas could give some protection, but I guess only a tiny bit against a big volume of missiles. I would not like to be the man having a saris sa to protect against incoming arrows...
And another big fault of pike phalanx was it was poor from the offensive point of view. Do not forget that in ancient time almost every soldier carried a shield as main protection. So if you faced a pike wall you simply have to keep your shield steady in front of you and that is all. While a hoplite with short spear can aim and stab your weakest point from upward or downward, the pike cannot. It can only be kept in the same position. Yes it had a good defensive role but limited offensive use. Unless you have opponents with small Shields, like other pikemen (that is why the bloodiest battles of phalanx were the ones either against other pike phalanx or against light eastern infantry with no armor and light or small shields).

[Mark G]

Your sources for this?