Athenian horse archers?

[Patrick Waterson]

Unless the Greek actually says something different it looks as if our Athenian horse-archers were keen to get stuck in

Your instinct is correct, Jim: the Greek actually says:

ou gar dē tou prōtos tōn hippeōn elaunein

(assuredly not for being first of the cavalry to march/drive/strike)

'Charge' seems to be the translator overloading the term: I have been unable to find anything on Edgar Carew Marchant's background, but suspect he knew from other periods that cavalry 'charged' into action so decided that 'charge' was a good word for the somewhat flexible elauno, which can mean anything from 'march' to 'drive off' (e.g. cattle) to 'strike' (with a weapon).  I would plump for 'first into action' as conveying the sense intended here.

[Mark G]

That rather implies they lead the army, i.e. Scouted, and opened the skirmishing,  rather than lead any attack

[Patrick Waterson]

Just a conjecture, but they probably opened the action in a similar manner to Alexander's hippotoxotai at the Hydaspes.

[Jim Webster]

Not an unreasonable assumption. They'd probably have an advantage when scouting and driving in enemy scouts and light troops.
I do rather wonder exactly how skillful they were, are we looking at men who were happy to fire from horseback if the horse was standing still, or were they good enough to fire from the back of a galloping horse.
Do we hear any mention of them from non-Athenian sources?
Jim

[Duncan Head]

We don't have much account of them in action at all. The Athenians sent only 20 horse-archers to Melos, only 30 to Sicily: does this suggest a role as scouts and couriers rather than much battlefield impact?

[Jim Webster]

That seems reasonable.
But if 'Against Alkibiades' is interpreted correctly, service could be defended as being at least on a par with hoplite service.
Acting as a scout and courier probably can fall into that category but I think they're still to be regarded as 'combatants'

Jim

[Patrick Waterson]

As Mark suggested, they could have done both scouting and combat duties.  With a dearth of solid evidence we are reduced to making reasonable (I hope) guesses, and my thinking as an Athenian cavalry commander would be that I would want full value out of these highly-paid chaps.

This brings up the question of what represents 'full value', and a dual role of a) scouting and b) delivering short, sharp, sagittarian shocks against the extremities of enemy battlelines might seem to fit the bill.  One way to utilise even small numbers of horse archers on the battlefield could be to operate them as a semi-independent detachment, so that when the Athenian cavalry lines up to face its opponents the horse archers split off and swing in against an enemy flank, releasing a stream of missiles from outside javelin range.  If some enemy cavalry start to redeploy against them, that would be a good moment for the Athenian cavalry to charge and catch their opponents 'between orders'.  Hypothetical, of course, but it has its attractions.

[Duncan Head]

If I may revive this thread from the vaults:

This blog post (of 2016) includes images of what is suggested to be an officer of the Athenian horse-archer corps, in helmet, cuirass and greaves. The pictures are said to be a rendering of a vase by the Pistoxenos Painter (*) in the Ashmolean, in Oxford. I can't find any other version of this vase online (including in the CVA Online); does anyone else know of it?

(*) The blog post says a "vase painted by Pistoxenos"; but Pistoxenos is the potter, "the Pistoxenos Painter" is the artist, name unknown, who decorated stuff signed by the potter Pistoxenos.

[RichT]

Afraid not, though you might come across it here:

https://www.beazley.ox.ac.uk/XDB/ASP/searchAshmolean.asp

(I didn't at a quick glance)

[Duncan Head]

Found it! It's not in the Ashmolean, it's in Berlin. Number 211328 at http://www.beazley.ox.ac.uk/XDB/ASP/dataSearch.asp, or see here.

Thanks!

[Erpingham]

Found it! It's not in the Ashmolean, it's in Berlin. Number 211328 at http://www.beazley.ox.ac.uk/XDB/ASP/dataSearch.asp, or see here.

Thanks!

It does beg the question why this unit has two apparent officers and no rank and file.  What if they are simply armoured horse archers?

[Duncan Head]

Quite possibly, assuming the scene is meant to be a portrayal of that unit at all.

[aligern]

Does anyone know what the scenes on the vase are meant to mean?
Roy