Assyrian (and other) scale armour

[Duncan Head]

I wasn't aware of this, though it was published in 2013:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Scale-Armour-Neo-Assyrian-Period-Manufacture-Maintenance/dp/3659337749/

By the same author:

https://www.academia.edu/6815493/Scale-Armour_in_the_Neo-Assyrian_Period_A_Survey
https://www.academia.edu/6816233/SCALE-ARMOUR_IN_THE_MEDITERRANEAN_AREA_DURING_THE_EARLY_IRON_AGE_A_FROM_THE_IXTH_TO_THE_IIIRD_CENTURY_BC

[Patrick Waterson]

I like the way he attempts to think out the choice of armour types for tactical roles in the 9th-3rd century paper.  Not sure about his judgement (p.8 of that paper) that:

"According to Herodotus, the Persian soldiers employed Egyptian cuirasses to  protect themselves during battles. Sadly enough, the only details he provides is the "fish-scale" appearance, which reminds one much more of the Neo-Assyrian patterns than that of a genuine Egyptian armour system."

To me, Egyptian scale armour has a much more 'fish-scale' appearance than does (Neo-)Assyrian.

Nice to see someone taking an interest in the subject, though.

[Duncan Head]

I'm not sure about his interpretation of some of the art - some of his "scale" armours look more like quilt to me. But it's hard to be sure with small-scale artistic pieces, and he's certainly come up with an interesting collection.

[Patrick Waterson]

I'm not sure about his interpretation of some of the art - some of his "scale" armours look more like quilt to me.

I was wondering about that: has he become the prisoner of his own interpretation?  A pity if he has, but he did make the effort to get the material together, and I give him credit for that.

[Tim]

At that price I think I will order two...

[Duncan Head]

This book of his intrigues me  rather.

[Dangun]

At that price I think I will order two...

Yes, at GBP55 for 200 pages, academic publishing is clearly heading in the right direction.

The quality of the blurb on the back cover suggests you would not be paying for any additional editing.

[Duncan Head]

The publisher, Lambert, seems to be a sort of academic self-publishing outfit rather than a conventional academic press.

[RichT]

I understand Lambert is a modern variant on a vanity publisher. They take substandard content from authors who wouldn't get published otherwise, provide zero editorial, design, quality or marketing input, and print it on demand. On the plus side, they don't charge the author anything so nobody loses, provided potential buyers beware.   

See for example: http://scholarlyoa.com/2012/11/05/lambert-academic-publishing-a-must-to-avoid/

So not part of the Great Evil Global Academic Publisher Conspiracy To Defraud Us All, after all.

[Patrick Waterson]

So not part of the Great Evil Global Academic Publisher Conspiracy To Defraud Us All, after all.

But with a remarkably similar pricing system.  That said, at least with the GEGA-PC-TDUA one can depend upon a certain level of quality.

Thanks for looking into this, Richard: it does seem that anything fielded by Lambert is likely to be very caveat emptor.  Or perhaps better not being an emptor in the first place: the best way to extract any pertinent information is probably going to be via one's local library.

While on the subject of scale armour, apparently the angle of the scales can be very important for their resistance to penetration.  See this newspaper article.  The way Egyptian scale armour was overlapped and angled the scales may perhaps have significance.

[Dangun]

On the plus side, they don't charge the author anything so nobody loses, provided potential buyers beware.   

Not so sure. The effect and pricing are the same, particularly if they take ownership of the copyright.
Although, to be fair, if they remain print-on-demand, at least it won't become unavailable.

So not part of the Great Evil Global Academic Publisher Conspiracy To Defraud Us All, after all.

This is a classic informal fallacy, specifically - a straw man argument.
No one said "conspiracy."

The main criticism was that academic publishing can reduce availability, sometimes to nil. A secondary complaint was that academic works are often priced to take advantage of the limited, price-insensitive market e.g. libraries etc. Admittedly, the second issue does have a repulsive logic to it.

[RichT]

I don't want to derail an Assyrian armour thread with academic publishing arguments, but...

Patrick:

But with a remarkably similar pricing system.

As they base their pricing system on real academic publishers, the similarity isn't really remarkable.

This is a classic informal fallacy, specifically - a straw man argument.
No one said "conspiracy."

Conceivably I wasn't entirely serious about GEGA-PC-TDUA - but you did say "Yes, at GBP55 for 200 pages, academic publishing is clearly heading in the right direction" (my emphasis).  This seems like 'illicit generalization' to me...

I would just add that if availability is important to the author then there are plenty of open access routes available, and publisher pricing is not and should not be chiefly directed towards minimising the expenditure of mildly interested amateurs who would rather spend money on toy soldiers than on books (that might be a straw man too, for rhetorical effect)

Sorry, digression ends.

I should also add that [...], this particular book may still be worth reading and the author might have his own valid reasons for publishing this way - I have no idea. Caveat emptor (or lector) indeed.

[tobypartridge]

Following referral, the above post has been edited to remove a statement that could be considered as libellous. Please don't post something on the Society forum that could lead to legal problems for the Society.

[RichT]

My mistake, poor choice of word, apologies - though people do need to be aware of this stuff.

Anyone interested in the subject can Google 'Lambert Academic Publishing' and draw their own conclusions.

[Patrick Waterson]

Yes, it is as well to know what manner of intellectual property prison lies in wait for the unwary, and how it functions.  I repeat my thanks to Richard for hunting out the links he gives.

With Lambert Academic Publishing decently buried, we can perhaps reconsider the subject of this thread.

Amy Barron's paper on Late Assyrian Arms and Armour: Art Versus Artifact is perhaps familiar to some of us: it seems to be a good and fairly thorough treatment of the subject.  Armour, notably scale armour, is addressed in pp.147ff. of the paper, which is about 200 pages long and free online, so seems to represent rather better value than de Backer's book.

Apparently the Assyrian term for such scales was 'kursimetu', apparently from the 'Hurrian' term kursimtu, meaning a snake or snake scales.  One might wonder if the Mesopotamian inspiration for scale mail was ophidian rather than piscine.  The coat of mail itself was a sariam, and there is even reference to one made of copper.

Overall, her treatment look thorough and well-considered, at least in my opinion.  This particular paper contains a good deal of information and is not too ambitions in analysis.

One observation, namely: "Interestingly, many soldiers in the reliefs do not appear tobe wearing any form of body armour at all, unless their tunics are of some sort of soft leather.These may represent auxiliaries or light infantry." seems to miss out on the chest-piece with crossbelts being considered to be armour by no less a martial people than the Romans as late as Polybius' time.  Nevertheless, as a look at scale mail in Biblical times I find this paper quite valuable.