Sizeable Bronze Age battle in northern Germany

[Andreas Johansson]

Strictly prehistory rather than history, but this was interesting:

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/slaughter-bridge-uncovering-colossal-bronze-age-battle

One need probably be a journalist to find the clash "colossal", but it's pretty big compared to what one might expect for the northern European bronze age.

[Patrick Waterson]

It is interesting, Andreas, because despite the hyperbole it does appear to be evidence of a clash of more than just local tribes.

"Genetic analysis is just beginning, but so far it supports the notion of far-flung origins. DNA from teeth suggests some warriors are related to modern southern Europeans and others to people living in modern-day Poland and Scandinavia."

Given the estimated dating, I wonder if we shall observe a 'Sea Peoples' hypothesis emerging in the near future ...

[Imperial Dave]

Its a very interesting article and a nice balance of popular style vs science. The only thing that made me laugh (inadvertently) was the first illustration pointing out things like a spear, a horse, a bow and arrow....... :-)

The most interesting aspect is the potential 'ripple effect' of elevated warfare in that period and how it might all interlink

[Erpingham]

This appears to be academic publication of the same site

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/250308033_A_Bronze_Age_Battlefield_Weapons_and_Trauma_in_the_Tollense_Valley_north-eastern_Germany


It is apparently a free download (though internet issues prevents me from trying it).

[Andreas Johansson]

Anthony's link - which indeed is a free download - apparently reflects an earlier state of research, as it states some interpretations - e.g. concerning signs of healing and one casualty having fallen a horse - that are described as superseded in the article I linked to. But it's more scholarly and in some respects more detailed, so worth a look nevertheless.

(Oh, and I note that Sw. gyttja "mud" has apparently acquired a technical meaning in English-language pedology. I confess to curiosity as to how it's pronounced in English.)

[Patrick Waterson]

(Oh, and I note that Sw. gyttja "mud" has apparently acquired a technical meaning in English-language pedology. I confess to curiosity as to how it's pronounced in English.)

Apparently like this.  (Approximately "yut-cha".)

[Andreas Johansson]

Apparently like this.  (Approximately "yut-cha".)

That's not too far from the original, given that English has nothing really like the Swedish 'y' vowel. The Swedish is ['jʏtːja].

[Erpingham]

Anthony's link - which indeed is a free download - apparently reflects an earlier state of research, as it states some interpretations - e.g. concerning signs of healing and one casualty having fallen a horse - that are described as superseded in the article I linked to.

If you scroll down, the citations section below the main text gives access to some update studies, including the re-interpretation of the arrow head wound.

[Erpingham]

Looking again at the reconstruction drawings in the article, I was wondering how best to model a force of this period.  In 28mm one might be drawn to the Foundry Bronze Age range http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/ancients/europeanbronzeage/ , though these are a bit later and feature quite a high proportion of individuals with helmets, breastplates and bronze shields.  They do have cavalry too.  If we wanted something more like the reconstructions - lots of hair and furs - maybe Foundry Savage Germans http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/ancients/germans/ancient-german-warriors-collection-bcag003/ ( Or naked Pict fanatics http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/ancients/picts ) with the addition of some miliput fur costumes. 

Or how about working from Copplestone cavemen http://www.copplestonecastings.co.uk/prod.php?prod=149?

One thing difficult to source might be appropriate archers - there are only a couple in the Bronze Age skirmishers

One thing not mentioned in the article are shields.  We know some wood survived (the clubs) and wooden shields are found in bog deposits.  Were there none in use?  Were they collected and carried off, as assumed with the swords?  Our Bronze Age Foreign Legion might be given rounded rectangular shields of wood orwicker or maybe round leather shields as found in Ireland?

[aligern]

Like this.
http://www.bronze-age-swords.com/Clonbrin_shield.htm

[Duncan Head]

Looking again at the reconstruction drawings in the article, I was wondering how best to model a force of this period.  In 28mm one might be drawn to the Foundry Bronze Age range ...

In 15mm the equivalent might be the Mick Yarrow "Northern Barbarians" - http://www.spanglefish.com/mickyarrowminiatures/index.asp?pageid=188024

[eques]

I would think for archers you could use any generic barbarian archer model and just give it  a bronze or flint arrowhead and maybe very plain garments (grey, white or brown with no embroidery)

I happen to be painting some ancient German archers at the moment which would fit the bill perfectly (don't know what make)

With regard to the stuf about isotopes in the teeth (not dna by the way) how reliable is it really?  The method is also cited a lot in studies of Arthurian Britain but to a layman I all sounds a bit tenuous to be honest.

[Andreas Johansson]

With regard to the stuf about isotopes in the teeth (not dna by the way) how reliable is it really? 

One'd think it more reliable than DNA, for the purpose of identifying where you're from, as it depends on your own history and not your ancestry.

That said, I can't give you any confidence intervals or the like.

[Erpingham]

I would think for archers you could use any generic barbarian archer model and just give it  a bronze or flint arrowhead and maybe very plain garments (grey, white or brown with no embroidery)

I happen to be painting some ancient German archers at the moment which would fit the bill perfectly (don't know what make)

Wouldn't the issue be the trousers?  Were trousers in use in Europe at the time?

[Jim Webster]

I would think for archers you could use any generic barbarian archer model and just give it  a bronze or flint arrowhead and maybe very plain garments (grey, white or brown with no embroidery)

I happen to be painting some ancient German archers at the moment which would fit the bill perfectly (don't know what make)

I wondered about that and thought it would be worth checking some of the 'bog bodies'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bocksten_Man

" his legs were covered by hosiery."
Wouldn't the issue be the trousers?  Were trousers in use in Europe at the time?