New scans of Viking swords reveal interesting aspects of their manufacture

[Imperial Dave]

http://www.livescience.com/58654-viking-sword-scans-reveal-norse-culture.html?utm_source=notification

not something I was previously aware of but interesting nonetheless

[Jim Webster]

interesting
Bad workmanship or were they just producing something for display?

[Patrick Waterson]

Dark Ages workmanship, methinks.

Given the near-veneration of swordmaking in Viking culture, it may be that most smiths knew the basics but only a few were conversant with the finer points of getting the metal just right.  It would be misleading to conclude, as the article seems to do, that swords were only rarely used in battle.

[Imperial Dave]

be interesting to compare with scans of swords from other cultures.....

[Erpingham]

I suspect that we are seeing fashion in action.  Pattern welded swords had originally a reputation because of the smithwork that went into them and the look of the finished product.  But not everyone could afford the top product so they bought something that looked the part.  You get a similar effect with Ulfberht swords.  Some have the quality and others are rubbish but have the makers mark.  Or it was a scam and poor swords were being sold to Vikings with purse loads of loot wanting to get an upmarket personal weapon.

[aligern]

I suspect the article goes too far and the swords are more serviceable than they predict. A pattern welded sword is going to have a dgree of resilience becayse if the mix of metal compisition in it. zthe outer surfaces of the rods are going to be slightly different from the inner and theese qualities will be intermingled.mBecause it is welded it should not fracture like a cast iron sword would. Generally the sword will hit shield edges or faces or flesh and bone. I doubt that they are hard enough to provide enough shock to the sword to break it.
I also suggest that the display only or useless in battle statements ar PaR hype. What this study may just be showing is the variability in quality that you get in any pre  industrial culture. Of course British cavalry swords in the Crimean period blunted easily and bent easily. Bayonets bent too. That just showed how smiths would cheat you. However, there would be a disincentive to selling really bad work in the tenth century...its called a large Norseman turning up at your stall to extract vengeance for his dead mate's defective weapon.
Roy

[Erpingham]

The interesting thing about the article is not that some weapons were worse than others - as Roy says, quality control was down to individuals.  Its the idea that lots of Vikings had either dress swords or perhaps funerary swords which fulfilled a social or religious function rather than a military one.  One thing that makes me wary on this point is a "bling" sword should have a very flash hilt, shouldn't it?  On social occassions you won't be pulling the sword out to show of the pattern welding.  Or do we imagine our heroes in the hall or at the thing having "whose sword is prettiest" sessions?

[Imperial Dave]

good point.....(or should that be bad point...sorry  )

I think this may be looking too far into the perfect world of perfect swords....there was probably a lot of variability from smith to smith and lets face it, if a sword breaks in combat, the wielder is possibly not going to be in a position to go back and complain later! 

[aligern]

A funerary sword would make sense, why put a good sword in a grave? However, the cost of an item is partly determined by its labour input. So why make a pattern welded sword for funerary purposes? A cheaper worked bear sword,binlaid and polushed is going to look even better!
Roy

[Imperial Dave]

I guess the analogy today would be for non fighting and fighting swords produced for re-enactors. My sword was tempered and so able to be used in combat but I knew of several suppliers who would make display copies with a big disclaimer saying that they werent for full combat reenacting...!

also there has been a bit of a trend for people in the past to buy sword copies and stick them on their walls for decoration (from fairly recently to way back when!)...we had had 2 on ours (albeit half scale) back in the 70's

[Erpingham]

A funerary sword would make sense, why put a good sword in a grave? However, the cost of an item is partly determined by its labour input. So why make a pattern welded sword for funerary purposes? A cheaper worked bear sword,binlaid and polushed is going to look even better!
Roy

Depends on the purpose of the sword - is it symbolic of warriordom or is it for practical use in the afterlife?  Or is it conspicuous consumption - a demonstration that the dead man's family can afford to put not just a sword but a pattern welded sword into the barrow?  Funerary swords would make more sense than dress swords I think.  It would be worth examining a few river find swords to see if they are the same or different in construction.

However, I'm still not sure we aren't seeing the cheap end of the pattern-welded sword market and these were just ordinary swords in everyday use.

[Imperial Dave]

A funerary sword would make sense, why put a good sword in a grave? However, the cost of an item is partly determined by its labour input. So why make a pattern welded sword for funerary purposes? A cheaper worked bear sword,binlaid and polushed is going to look even better!
Roy

However, I'm still not sure we aren't seeing the cheap end of the pattern-welded sword market and these were just ordinary swords in everyday use.

I suspect quite a large proportion (but not all) would fall into this category

[Darklinger]

Pattern welded swords were made less and less frequently over the period, requiring great skill (I know as I have forge welded steels and iron in making sculpture).  Unless reasonably clean of oxides/'slag', pieces will often not weld together properly, anyway. It is much easier to edge softer iron with high carbon material than pattern weld. It is also easier to case-harden iron or steel than do any welding. There is no mention about this timeline progression.
I think Roy is quite right about the article, typically 'news' orientated and claiming it for academic prestige.

[Imperial Dave]

Pattern welded swords were made less and less frequently over the period, requiring great skill (I know as I have forge welded steels and iron in making sculpture).  Unless reasonably clean of oxides/'slag', pieces will often not weld together properly, anyway. It is much easier to edge softer iron with high carbon material than pattern weld. It is also easier to case-harden iron or steel than do any welding. There is no mention about this timeline progression.
I think Roy is quite right about the article, typically 'news' orientated and claiming it for academic prestige.

thanks Nigel, glad to see someone with practical experience of the different types of metal working....helps to frame the discussion