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Saga Combat

Started by Erpingham, December 12, 2017, 02:30:29 PM

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Erpingham

Another dissertation courtesy of Medievalist.net

Combat in Saga Literature :Traces of martial arts in medieval Iceland

Haven't read it yet so don't know if it says anything about shieldwalls or berserkers :)

Patrick Waterson

Well ... listed among the contents are:

4.1.b) Heroes vs. vikings and berserks ...

Then again, it also has:

4.1.c)  Heroes vs. undead and giants ...

That said, Ásmundr the berserk-slayer presumably got his reputation for doing what his cognomen suggests.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill

Erpingham

Well, I've worked through it.  It isn't easy - its well enough written but doesn't bother to directly translate any of the passages in OLd Norse.

It is mainly about four literary modes for describing combat in sagas

• the 'knightly mode of combat';
• the 'adventurous mode of combat';
• the 'heroic mode of combat';
• the 'factual mode of combat'.

Very little of it is of any use in a wargames context, though the "factual mode" of combat descriptions give some idea about weapon handling and technique.  There is also a digressive chapter on the nature of glima wrestling, for those interested in the sport.

It does feature an epic discussion and tabulation of all the deaths and woundings in Njal's Saga, which may be of interest.  Like a kill-count in a Hollywood movie, the author does provide the following statistics which summarises quite how bloody this saga is

We can count a total number of 122 individuals getting killed, of which 120 are grown
men (the other two are Bergþóra and the boy Þórðr, during the brenna). However, this
number does not include the many references to slain combatants who are mentioned
without their exact number being given, like in the naval battles or at the Battle of Clontarf.
They would make for a much higher number of fallen. Of the 46 combat scenes (counting
the fight at the alþingi and the Battle of Clontarf as single scenes), only two end without
fatalities, (CS 15) and (CS 39). The most effective fighter is Gunnar, who kills 21 enemies,
closely followed by Kári, with a head count of 20. Skarpheðinn, third in line, takes eight
lives, followed by Kolskeggr (six), Grímr, Helgi, Þorgeirr skorargeirr, and the missionary
Þangbrandr (all of whom kill four enemies). Again, only precise descriptions of killings have
been taken into account, but no ambiguous phrases like mannfall mikið or alla er fremstir
voru, which would rise some of these numbers significantly.



Patrick Waterson

In essence, a good deal of how it is sung about but noticeably less of how it was done.  Still, full marks for perseverance and extracting something of interest from the literary trimmings.

Noting that the nine top scorers accounted for more than half the 'definite' kills in the saga, might we be tempted to up the effectiveness of veterans when refighting this period?
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill

Erpingham

Quote from: Patrick Waterson on December 13, 2017, 07:18:51 PM
Noting that the nine top scorers accounted for more than half the 'definite' kills in the saga, might we be tempted to up the effectiveness of veterans when refighting this period?

One might suggest that they do half the killing because they are the focus of the story.  However, to survive to be the focus of the story you need to be a skilled fighter.  Men like Gunnar, Kari and Skarphedinn have favoured weapons (often named) and are confident to fight against superior numbers.  But they are also deadly with bare hands and improvised weapons. 

Patrick Waterson

Presumably (he says, not having read the article) a fair proportion of their encounters were duels or small group activities (of the don't-do-this-at-home variety) in which this expertise could be put to good use.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill

Andreas Johansson

Quote from: Patrick Waterson on December 14, 2017, 08:24:32 PM
Presumably (he says, not having read the article) a fair proportion of their encounters were duels or small group activities (of the don't-do-this-at-home variety) in which this expertise could be put to good use.
From what I recall of reading the saga nearing twenty years ago, it's mostly very small-scale affairs apart from Clontarf. And I suspect that the amount of killing for the main male characters correlates fairly well with their amount of screen-time.
Lead Mountain 2024
Acquired: 44 infantry, 16 cavalry, 0 chariots, 5 other
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Erpingham

Quote from: Patrick Waterson on December 14, 2017, 08:24:32 PM
Presumably (he says, not having read the article) a fair proportion of their encounters were duels or small group activities (of the don't-do-this-at-home variety) in which this expertise could be put to good use.

Yes.  The Icelandic experience of violence was pretty small scale and was marked by formal one-to-one fights and feuds.  To get a decent battle in, the saga writers needed their heroes to go on tour. 

Other than the structural analysis of how combat was displayed in these sagas, the main interest focuses on the "reakistic" mode and what it tells us about technique.